Document explaining the advantages/disadvantages of SLRs vs super 35mm video cameras

kerrigan

kerrigan

Well-known member
I've found the number of producers asking for the 5D... is continuing to increase.

On a recent production... I shot with my FS700 and the producer/director used his 5D Mark lll.
When I viewed the final colour corrected edit... I found the FS700 looked much better.
More detail in the blacks... with no jello or moire effects.
Because the director was shooting with a full frame camera... some of his shots were just a little soft.

I own a SLR capable of shooting video… but once you've experienced a 35mm video camera, you don't want to go back.

I'd like to find or create a document that explains in detail... the advantages and disadvantages of SLRs vs. super 35mm video cameras.

I'd prefer this information be related to the FS700 / FS100 / 5D Mark 1, Mark 2 and Mark 3.

I want it to be fair without bias…

Any ideas?


Bill Kerrigan DP
Montreal
www.kerrigan.ca
 
well, what you said is common knowledge after all.
*are* there any advantages over the FSxxx other than the FF sensor?

When I used a 5D MkII and III (I don't think the Mk I shot video) I could not believe how soft the raw footage was. But then i see other people's videos that seem to be quite good. Guess they really did a lot of post work on it.
Other than that the disadvantages of 5D's are obviously shorter battery life, no XLR, no peaking/zebras, 50/60fps, non-16:9 screen, moire...
 
ed_lee83 said:
well, what you said is common knowledge after all.
Click to expand...

It may be common knowledge on this FS100 / FS700 forum, but that's not what I've found for the general video community.
As a freelance DP, I find myself explaining the differences many times a week.

It wastes my time... and I don't want to sound like salesman.
I'd rather send my clients a comprehensive document, which would help them understand.
 
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You are a salesman, therefore if you really asked for a comparison regularly then you should prepare the document yourself.

Send them some res charts which should scare the living sh1t out of them.
 
If the FS700 looked so much better, what's the problem? If the director preferred the 5d, then ... what are you gonna do? Convince him with salesspeak?

non-16:9 screen, moire...
Click to expand...

5d mark III has no moire and a slightly more wider lcd.
 
FS100/FS700 are true video cameras, and as such, have a lot of external controls on the body. They also have faster readout of the sensor so there is less jello effect. Then there are things like, outputs HDSDI/HDMI vs only HDMI, colorspace, better audio recording capabilities.
 
You can show em this.. http://www.dslr4real.tv/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=80&Itemid=1

Ive done 2 jobs if not more with my 5d (since I had the FS100)- I absolutely hate using it the 5d as an a cam

not only because of its limitations but also because Ive got my two cameras set up in a very specific way

The 5d is my B camera, has no monitor or counterweight, my FS is my A camera

My 5d is set up to plonk on the ground or rig to a vehicle or stick on a shelf

Its great for all those shots and generally lives on a hi-hat

The other 'threat' is 'c300 operator needed' - I go 'my cam is basically the same' people think Im a blagger.. even if they want me to use their rented c300
That music vid just posted shows what a little power house the FS100 is once you defeat the foibles

If I were a client I would want an operator who got more than 50% in focus and delivered one file, with no rainbows, all at a great price, but thats just me what do I know?

The other crazy thing is other jobs, where the client wants a 'reality' look - you know all crash zooms and camera shake - and still want the 5d - which is nuts.. I have an EX1 that is as reality as you want, plus the onboard ND and super zoom mean that shooting with it is effortless

On my website http://www.sammorganmoore.com/kit I describe my 5d as my C camera!

S
 
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Nirv said:
You are a salesman, therefore if you really asked for a comparison regularly then you should prepare the document yourself.

Send them some res charts which should scare the living sh1t out of them.
Click to expand...

I'd rather teach than scare...
 
maarek said:
If the FS700 looked so much better, what's the problem? If the director preferred the 5d, then ... what are you gonna do? Convince him with salesspeak?
Click to expand...

In the end the director did like the FS700.
Although I can be persuasive... I rather be a documentary cameraman and a teacher.

Today, I just received another 5D request.
Before writing something myself...
I just thought I would ask if someone has done this before.
 
The really hard thing to get across is how awful the 5d is on set .. hmdi lead straight into your cheek, press record... monitor goes black for a week, and the pisspoor 480 monitoring on 1/4inch DOF

Im mean the 5d doenst even bolt to a tripod properly so twists when you use a FF bending the image

Not to mention the throw on L glass which is sickly

.. and worst of all I have a couple of editors who are scared of using me cos of the the sound synch problems

So some people dont use me.. cos Im a 'DSLR shooter' and some people dont use me.. because Im not a DLSR shooter!

S
 
morgan_moore said:
The other crazy thing is other jobs, where the client wants a 'reality' look - you know all crash zooms and camera shake - and still want the 5d - which is nuts.. I have an EX1 that is as reality as you want, plus the onboard ND and super zoom mean that shooting with it is effortless
Click to expand...


Good point!
Last month I was on a shoot with a director, producer, client and agency.
I was on a slider with a PIX240 and fixed lens... and the producer asked me to quickly go handheld... follow someone then zoom in.

Many producers have just discovered SLR video...
When I tell them there is something even better... I can feel the resistance
 
morgan_moore said:
So some people dont use me.. cos Im a 'DSLR shooter' and some people dont use me.. because Im not a DLSR shooter!
Click to expand...

Exactly... I'm getting requests from producers looking for a 'DSLR shooter'.

I was shooting a festival in Montreal a few weeks ago...
I saw approximately 20 crews from around the world.
Three local networks were using full size cameras... the rest were 5Ds.

So... when I get the requests for a 'DSLR shooter' I need to explain there are other options.
 
Egg Born Son said:
At first glance I wondered what was wrong with it. I wouldn't have even noticed it if I wasn't looking for it. But once I spotted the issue it stood out like dogs balls and I couldn't see anything else. And maybe this is the problem, it passes the casual glance.
Click to expand...

Maybe as a still but those rainbows shimmer if there is motion in your shot

I have some nice stuff from the 7d, shots I am proud of, but most money I make involves property either new builds or hotels, (I am sorry to say), and with property the alaising can be really horrid, and unpredictable, the eX1 is also not much use for property because the lens is not that wide and pretty distorted

I have nikkor 18 and 14 primes for my FS100, so my angle is wide, my verticals straight and my wallpaper/bricks are not dancing

S
 
kerrigan said:
I was on a slider with a PIX240 and fixed lens... and the producer asked me to quickly go handheld... follow someone then zoom in.
Click to expand...

Yep exactly the client I worked with, we had that 'hey zoom in on her' on set, then her editor hated the dual sound (this same producer had given me all the 'DSLR look so wonderful' at the commissioning stage of the job)

And Im at the job with my EX1 sitting in my van 100meters away

Im slowly climbing a wall back with her in terms of gaining trust and getting some more video jobs (even though she uses us all the time for the stills arm of my business)

Another thing that is also not really understood by director producers (generally corporate from an ENG background) is the shooting style that is appropriate for 25p

SD 50i covers such a world of shake and misfocus and pan jitter that really moving from SD/50i to 1080 25p you need to engage a completely different approach to using a camera.

Worst of all is then to chuck in the celeb presenter who want to leave in 5mins, and do a PTC walking straight at the lens.. at least with the kit lens you might be able to hold focus with the FS100 unlike a DSLR, F3, C300 or Epic

S35, progressive and 1080 changes everything, DSLR or not, and the people in charge have not really got their heads around it, roll on them expecting a solo operator to be able to walk, zoom and pull focus at 4k, 24p while looking through a 480px EVF

S
 
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Ive been on another comical job where 7d was A cam and they were using a Tape camera (z1 or something) as a sound recorder (carried by the reporter, pointing at the floor) and I was doing b-cam on the FS

These people seem to always be tweeting at midnight about 'still in the edit suite'

S
 
They are all different tools for different gigs... I shot almost exclusively with the 5DMKII for 2 years and produced some of the best footage of my career. Not because it is technically sound footage, but because the rigs that made it EASY and PRACTICAL to put it anywhere we affordable and available. (sliders, hand-held stabilizers, shoulder rigs, etc.). I guess part of it is attitude: I'd rather my DSLR take a plunk than my F3 or 700! :crybaby:
Technically, the footage on the S35 cameras is FAR superior. Put it in Davinci and start moving things around and you'll see why quickly.
Ultimately, depends on what you're shooting--better is the enemy of good enough!
 
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