Do you think it's possible to shoot an AMAZING feature for under $10,000?

Do you think it's possible to shoot an AMAZING feature for under $10,000?

  • Total voters
    157
Brian_Rice said:
So like I said, we can agree to disagree. I don't think money should be involved with the creative inception of a piece. I will never be capable of accepting that as a viable option. So, agree to disagree.
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Well, I don't know what your plans are, but you may want to bend on that. Just sayin'. But words don't appear to be convincing.
 
Brian_Rice said:
But art was never meant to be profitable, it was supposed to be educational by any creative means necessary. People have perverted the concept over time, but the inception of a story still has to be rooted in that most basic concept for it to have any intrinsic value to, ya know, the species.

Maybe where the splitting hairs has come in is the actual concept of *filmmaking*. Maybe the problem with my argument is that filmmaking, unless wholly improv, is not the inception of the thing but instead the production of the thing. Maybe from the first moment one is *filmmaking* the reason the film is being made is already ten steps removed.

So to put my argument to bed, I will say that a STORY should never be created primarily for reasons of financial gain. A story should be written because the writer has something to say. I understand that there are many people, even very famous people, who deviate from this, but I don't personally agree with their method.
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I'll tell you a story, and forgive me for sounding more than a bit cheeky.

This goes for everyone reading this thread, so hear me out here. Get a cup of coffee, tea or hot cocoa, sit down and enjoy it for what it is.

This is a true story by the way, and it happened just like this.

Once upon a time, about 1000 billion years ago to be exact, there was a small village of cave dwelling hunter/gatherers somewhere in the world.
These guys, they had it pretty good. Food was plenty, the weather was nice and nobody was really THAT poor or hungry.
Let's just say they had a good system going that's unfortunately been lost over the ages.

What they also had was the first two storytellers ever, one was called Bob and the other was called Mike.

Now Bob the Storyteller (for that was his name) used to have this great gong by the fire and a reserved seat after the evening meal. The whole village would gather around him when he banged that gong in the evening. He'd bang that thing and go "Come here, come here, everyone! I've got a STORY to tell you all!" and everyone would tell their friends who didn't hear the gong and they'd say "It's time! It's time! Bob is telling a story! Let's go!"
Young couples would race to get a seat next to eachother, and mothers would stay with their little kids so they wouldn't get too scared, and everyone loved Bob the Storyteller.

Then there was Mike. Mike had a large bell, and he would ring it also at night and shout "Come here, come here, everyone! I've got a STORY I think is interesting to tell for my own sake!"

Mike lost his entire crowd after one story.

The End.
 
vcassel said:
Jawa and I had a go back and forth on this not long ago on another thread. Defining characteristics of art include deliberate arrangement of symbolism and the affecting of the senses. Therefore it can be said that you need an audience to interpret it in order to declare what you've created to be art. 'Entertaining' is largely another matter, but I suppose if you want an audience in the first place...
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I personally believe that art has no meaning without an audience to interpret it. The creator's intent is meaningless if nobody understands it.

I guess I'm lucky in that the types of films that I most enjoy watching, and which I am striving to create through my writing, are very commercial types of movies such as The Matrix, The Mummy, James Bond, and Indiana Jones.
 
Yes, story is largly cultural and communal. When self indulgent and self entertaining, it is in its nascent stage known as 'thought'.
 
I'm sorry, but if you want to make "art," then go take pen to paper, brush to canvas, or dip your fingers into some modeling clay. Film is a business first and foremost because it requires the cooperation of a lot of talented individuals in order to pull off successfully.

Most of these filmmakers who crow about "art" merely set about to waste these people's time with their self-indulgent bullshit projects.
 
Jawa Ex Machina said:
I'll tell you a story, and forgive me for sounding more than a bit cheeky.

This goes for everyone reading this thread, so hear me out here. Get a cup of coffee, tea or hot cocoa, sit down and enjoy it for what it is.

This is a true story by the way, and it happened just like this.

Once upon a time, about 1000 billion years ago to be exact, there was a small village of cave dwelling hunter/gatherers somewhere in the world.
These guys, they had it pretty good. Food was plenty, the weather was nice and nobody was really THAT poor or hungry.
Let's just say they had a good system going that's unfortunately been lost over the ages.

What they also had was the first two storytellers ever, one was called Bob and the other was called Mike.

Now Bob the Storyteller (for that was his name) used to have this great gong by the fire and a reserved seat after the evening meal. The whole village would gather around him when he banged that gong in the evening. He'd bang that thing and go "Come here, come here, everyone! I've got a STORY to tell you all!" and everyone would tell their friends who didn't hear the gong and they'd say "It's time! It's time! Bob is telling a story! Let's go!"
Young couples would race to get a seat next to eachother, and mothers would stay with their little kids so they wouldn't get too scared, and everyone loved Bob the Storyteller.

Then there was Mike. Mike had a large bell, and he would ring it also at night and shout "Come here, come here, everyone! I've got a STORY I think is interesting to tell for my own sake!"

Mike lost his entire crowd after one story.

The End.
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What I want to know is - Where did Bob get the gong and Mike get the bell?

.
 
Gary Huff said:
I'm sorry, but if you want to make "art," then go take pen to paper, brush to canvas, or dip your fingers into some modeling clay. Film is a business first and foremost because it requires the cooperation of a lot of talented individuals in order to pull off successfully.

Most of these filmmakers who crow about "art" merely set about to waste these people's time with their self-indulgent bullshit projects.
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I hear what you're saying, but every big time director I can think of started out closer to Picasso than to Donald Trump. Most were making super 8 movies, drawing, painting,writing or involved with art before they ever even knew the value of a dollar.
The word is compromise....it doesen't have to be one way or the other.
 
Jawa Ex Machina said:
I'll tell you a story, and forgive me for sounding more than a bit cheeky.

This goes for everyone reading this thread, so hear me out here. Get a cup of coffee, tea or hot cocoa, sit down and enjoy it for what it is.

This is a true story by the way, and it happened just like this.

Once upon a time, about 1000 billion years ago to be exact, there was a small village of cave dwelling hunter/gatherers somewhere in the world.
These guys, they had it pretty good. Food was plenty, the weather was nice and nobody was really THAT poor or hungry.
Let's just say they had a good system going that's unfortunately been lost over the ages.

What they also had was the first two storytellers ever, one was called Bob and the other was called Mike.

Now Bob the Storyteller (for that was his name) used to have this great gong by the fire and a reserved seat after the evening meal. The whole village would gather around him when he banged that gong in the evening. He'd bang that thing and go "Come here, come here, everyone! I've got a STORY to tell you all!" and everyone would tell their friends who didn't hear the gong and they'd say "It's time! It's time! Bob is telling a story! Let's go!"
Young couples would race to get a seat next to eachother, and mothers would stay with their little kids so they wouldn't get too scared, and everyone loved Bob the Storyteller.

Then there was Mike. Mike had a large bell, and he would ring it also at night and shout "Come here, come here, everyone! I've got a STORY I think is interesting to tell for my own sake!"

Mike lost his entire crowd after one story.

The End.
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But neither one addresses what I've been talking about.

So here's Fred -- he has a STORY that is of importance and goes about telling it in an interesting manner.

People here are behaving as if there are two camps, those who make something for money that entertains others (but only needs to entertain so that they can make said money) and those who make *art* (that dreadful thing) for purely self-indulgent purposes.

Both, in my opinion, have nothing to do with why any important story is created in the first place.

An important story sets out to teach the human race something about the world, the ethereal or themselves. If all a story does is entertain people, it's frivolous; if it's just some effort in creative masturbation, it's pointless. The former is pretty much what makes up 99% of all that comes out of the large studios, but IMO both are the most base reasons for a story to come into existence.

Think of your favorite movie or story. Did it have a message? Did it have something important to say about the human condition? And did it entertain while it delivered that message?

This is me closing my case.
 
Gary Huff said:
I'm sorry, but if you want to make "art," then go take pen to paper, brush to canvas, or dip your fingers into some modeling clay. Film is a business first and foremost because it requires the cooperation of a lot of talented individuals in order to pull off successfully.

Most of these filmmakers who crow about "art" merely set about to waste these people's time with their self-indulgent bulls**t projects.
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While I mostly agree with you, we should probably keep the conversation's tone a bit less aggressive if we can. It's been a great discussion, even if circular, and we need more of these on the boards.
 
Art and business are mutually exclusive activities? That's news to me and seems to run counter to reality. Yet people default to an ill-perceived convention that they're opposites. I wonder why this is.
 
Brian_Rice said:
An important story sets out to teach the human race something about the world, the ethereal or themselves. If all a story does is entertain people, it's frivolous; if it's just some effort in creative masturbation, it's pointless. The former is pretty much what makes up 99% of all that comes out of the large studios, but IMO both are the most base reasons for a story to come into existence.
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I think, more importantly than any of that, a good story invites an audience to emotionally purge.
 
Jawa Ex Machina said:
Roger the blacksmith made them.

Mike was never refunded, even after Arthur the Debt Collector was involved. Judge Judy (of no relation to the TV show) ruled in favor of Roger.
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Ha!!
I'm always interested in the seemingly meaningless parts of films/stories. The reason I love Pulp Fiction so much is that everything is unconventional and isn't EXPLAINED..and on that note I've always wished Tarantino would do a prequel that didn't include the major players but told the tale of the young guys at the beginning, - How did they get the case? (they look like suburban kids) Were they just flat out thieves? Were they just doing an odd job?
Anyway, Tarantino could market this prequel as just a new film and only at the end would the audience go Oh ...t, that's who these guys are.
 
pulpfiction007 said:
Ha!!
I'm always interested in the seemingly meaningless parts of films/stories. The reason I love Pulp Fiction so much is that everything is unconventional and isn't EXPLAINED..and on that note I've always wished Tarantino would do a prequel that didn't include the major players but told the tale of the young guys at the beginning, - How did they get the case? (they look like suburban kids) Were they just flat out thieves? Were they just doing an odd job?
Anyway, Tarantino could market this prequel as just a new film and only at the end would the audience go Oh ...t, that's who these guys are.
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Forget that. How about a Tarantino produced TV show about Jules' life on the road? Traveling from town to town like Caine from Kung Fu. Helping strangers out, always pursued by the life he left behind. Looking for his lost daughter.
 
Giriki said:
But also, if you only think about yourself and make self-indulgent crap just to be artsy, you'll fail twice as hard.
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Unless you're Matthew Barney, whose filmed art project The Cremaster Cycle was released in a limited set of 20 with each going for $100,000. At one point, one of them sold for $571,000.
 
Brian_Rice said:
Catharsis has its place, but I still think it can only exist if something important is being said.
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Wouldn't you define the importance on what is being said based on the result of what happens when it's said, rather than the other way around?

Like, if you say something that gives someone else a catharsis, wouldn't that make it important?
 
I think where some of the disconnect comes from is that there are essentially 2 types of motion pictures (obviously can be broken down into many genres/styles)

MOVIES - Entertainment and being wowed are the driving force behind them. They don't really TRY to say anything important and they don't have to...they are a show like any other. They try to make the audience laugh, sometimes cry, try to scare them, or give them grand special effects - they are visceral in nature. I have loved many MOVIES

FILMS - The driving force behind them is to make the audience think, to present new ideas, to ask moral questions, to reflect society, etc. I have loved many FILMS

Sometimes motion pictures can be both, and that usually earns them a place at the highest level.

Anyway, that's just my 2 minute take on it.
 
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