Do you think it's possible to shoot an AMAZING feature for under $10,000?

[Brian_Rice]

To sort of side with David... Brian, why are you doing an X-Men Fan Film? Because, you know more people would watch it versus an original sci-fi.

That's business practice, that isn't art.

lol Because my producer hat said, "We've got 3K to spend on the next short film, whaddya wanna do?"

Me: "Something sci-fi. I've been want to do something with effects outside my comfort zone."

Hat: "Anything sci-fi? You don't care what it is so long as it has effects?"

Me: "Not really. Effects and a solid emotional arc, I guess."

Hat: "Well you know, if we're going to be doing a short film anyway, it's probably a good idea to get as many views as possible, yeah?"

Me: "Sure, I guess."

Hat: "What about some sort of fan film? Like a video game or comic book or something? You read comic books, don't you? You could probably swing that, right? And hey, I'll even let you pick the brand. Whaddya say?"

Me: "That's cool."

That's it. And, for me, it's two completely different entities. He doesn't F with with I do and I don't F with what he does. But, to your point, if I didn't get the hat's go ahead on something I would probably just dress up a treatment and file it away. The hat always has the final say, but he has nothing whatsoever to do with the creation and inception of a project; he only says what I'm okay to move forward on.

 

[Kholi]

l

Hat: "Well you know, if we're going to be doing a short film anyway, it's probably a good idea to get as many views as possible, yeah?"
.

Then your Hat person is an exec. Someone had to be! Better spend that money wisely, and I agree with him.

 

[Jawa Ex Machina]

Does IMDb have an Executive Hat Person cred?

 

[Brian_Rice]

Don't F with the Hat.

 

[keylight]

Some pretty bold statements have been made in this thread. But not really knowing a person's background can make it difficult to understand how and why someone has that particular point of view. [SNIP] For all anyone knows I could be a 20 year old day-dreaming of making movies who wants to hop on the next flight to L.A., with a dollar in my pocket and a whole lot of chutzpah - but no real education or experience on which to base most of my assertions.

Hehe - quoting myself.... Anyway, I then gave a little background on myself.

But what about Brian, vcassel, and Giriki?

You've all argued - vociferously at times - against the people with opinions that disagreed with yours. But I'm wondering about the foundations on which you built your arguments.

So, who are you? What's your background?

Edit: To clarify, obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But people place a much higher value on the opinions of others who speak from experience over those who have little or none. So learning about your background would strengthen (or weaken) your position.

 

[groveChuck]

Don't F with the Hat.

 

[David Jimerson]

lol Because my producer hat said, "We've got 3K to spend on the next short film, whaddya wanna do?"

Me: "Something sci-fi. I've been want to do something with effects outside my comfort zone."

Hat: "Anything sci-fi? You don't care what it is so long as it has effects?"

Me: "Not really. Effects and a solid emotional arc, I guess."

Hat: "Well you know, if we're going to be doing a short film anyway, it's probably a good idea to get as many views as possible, yeah?"

Me: "Sure, I guess."

Hat: "What about some sort of fan film? Like a video game or comic book or something? You read comic books, don't you? You could probably swing that, right? And hey, I'll even let you pick the brand. Whaddya say?"

Me: "That's cool."

That's it. And, for me, it's two completely different entities. He doesn't F with with I do and I don't F with what he does. But, to your point, if I didn't get the hat's go ahead on something I would probably just dress up a treatment and file it away. The hat always has the final say, but he has nothing whatsoever to do with the creation and inception of a project; he only says what I'm okay to move forward on.

Brian, this is, if not disingenuous, an unrealistically rigid wall of separation. To say that you made this choice as a "producer" and not a "filmmaker" is bit much.

But heck, let's indulge it a little bit. Suppose a producer gives a director a project which the producer considers commercially viable. Suppose further that the director decides it's within his artistic vision of the project to plaster pictures of dead babies everywhere. That director will have scuttled the commercial viability of the project no matter if it's artistically "sound."

That director will not be asked to direct again, and probably won't even be allowed to finish the film.

So, that director should damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead? Really?

 

[vcassel]

I then give a little background on myself. But what about Brian, vcassel, and Giriki?

You've all argued - vociferously at times - against the people who opinions that disagreed with yours. But I'm wondering about the foundations on which you built your arguments.

So, who are you? What's your background?

Edit: To clarify, obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But people place a much higher value on the opinions of others who speak from experience over those who have little or none. So learning about your background would strengthen (or weaken) your position.

Vociferous? Me? Hehe, I dunno.

Well, I guess I'm an artist (illustration) first and foremost, mostly due to a childhood fascination with comic books. I've been trained in illustration from a young age by my brother-in-law, an Emmy winning storyboard artist, and I've been lucky enough to train under comic great Mark Sparacio in college.

I guess I'm a musician/producer second, though I haven't done anything musically inclined in many months. I've been playing guitar, bass, and programming synthesizers and sequencers since I was 15 and first heard Nine Inch Nails (I'm 31 now). At one point, in my mid 20s, my friend and I had our own full featured music production studio. It was brief, though.

And, well, I suppose I'm an actor/filmmaker/CG artist/editor thirdly--I kinda consider all of that to be the same bag for me. I've spent the last decade in school--first an A.A. in Theatre, second a B.F.A. in Computer Animation (I won a full storyboarding scholarship), and just lately an A.A. in Motion Picture Production.

I'm new to L.A. and ready to kick some a**, but I haven't really caught a break yet. I read scripts professionally for a major production company for a while and I just finished doing all the compositing/VFX work on a Red MX feature that's probably going to go the direct-to-video route (I did it for free in order to get a credit to my name). The industry doors are sealed tight right now and I'm a bit sick of waiting around for them to open. I want to make a feature mostly to prove to myself that I can do it, but also I think it would make a great trial-by-fire learning experience.

Beyond that, I'm just writing. In all three schools, I had multiple compulsory screenwriting course and I feel pretty well developed in that regard. I'm lucky in that not only is my brother-in-law a successful storyboard artist, but my brother is a successful novelist and screenwriter who has optioned works to Sony for a pretty penny. They've been hugely influential to me. I'm writing my second official feature-length script right now.

 

[vcassel]

I have an idea for a film.

It's a horror film, could be done for $2,000 bucks maybe.
Unfortunately, it's not a commercial concept.

It's an interesting idea and it's never been done this way before, and it would piss a lot of people off though.
So at least it would be fun.

I'd love to hear the idea, Jawa, either on this thread or in PM.

 

[Brian_Rice]

Brian, this is, if not disingenuous, an unrealistically rigid wall of separation. To say that you made this choice as a "producer" and not a "filmmaker" is bit much.

But heck, let's indulge it a little bit. Suppose a producer gives a director a project which the producer considers commercially viable. Suppose further that the director decides it's within his artistic vision of the project to plaster pictures of dead babies everywhere. That director will have scuttled the commercial viability of the project no matter if it's artistically "sound."

That director will not be asked to direct again, and probably won't even be allowed to finish the film.

So, that director should damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead? Really?

That sounds more disingenuous then my position. A producer chooses a production and they also choose the person to direct. Why would the producer choose someone whose artistic vision is not in line with the production (or, to speak more generally, "the story")? In the end no matter how many egos or visions are in the room, the story is what's paramount. I think it would be a shabby producer indeed who hires someone to direct something who has a vision so totally different from what's on the script.

 

[Jawa Ex Machina]

I'd love to hear the idea, Jawa, either on this thread or in PM.

I can't really share it. If it gets out it can't be done.

 

[J.R. Hudson]

Nice.

 

[David Jimerson]

That sounds more disingenuous then my position. A producer chooses a production and they also choose the person to direct. Why would the producer choose someone whose artistic vision is not in line with the production (or, to speak more generally, "the story")? In the end no matter how many egos or visions are in the room, the story is what's paramount. I think it would be a shabby producer indeed who hires someone to direct something who has a vision so totally different from what's on the script.

It happens. Far more frequently than you think.

And who's to the say the director's artistic vision isn't in line with "the story" as that director sees the story? Who, by your reasoning, would the producer be to tell him otherwise?

There are about 10,000 different takes at any given time on any Shakespeare play, yet they're all working from the same script. Are any of them wrong?

 

[vcassel]

I can't really share it. If it gets out it can't be done.

Ah, sorry, thought it was an invitation.

When you copywright the treatment, let us know.

 

[Brian_Rice]

Hehe - quoting myself.... Anyway, I then gave a little background on myself.

But what about Brian, vcassel, and Giriki?

You've all argued - vociferously at times - against the people with opinions that disagreed with yours. But I'm wondering about the foundations on which you built your arguments.

So, who are you? What's your background?

Edit: To clarify, obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But people place a much higher value on the opinions of others who speak from experience over those who have little or none. So learning about your background would strengthen (or weaken) your position.

I've been playing poker professionally for about 7 years. Before that I worked in finance. I've written eleven genre novels and more than a few short stories but never attempted to publish anything because nothing was ever publishable except maybe one, but it's not something I'm looking to publish. A few years ago at the behest of my wife I decided to leave prose and pursue screenwriting. I've done a webseries and a few short films. About a year ago I killed (at a considerable financial loss) all of my LLC's social networking, website, forum engagements (even eventually the one here) and channels, stepped away and decided to start rebranding myself and The Great Independent as something of a higher caliber than what it was at its inception. Also I'm six foot, have blue eyes and four cats and like long walks on the beach.

 

[Brian_Rice]

It happens. Far more frequently than you think.

And who's to the say the director's artistic vision isn't in line with "the story" as that director sees the story? Who, by your reasoning, would the producer be to tell him otherwise?

There are about 10,000 different takes at any given time on any Shakespeare play, yet they're all working from the same script. Are any of them wrong?

But the producers of those plays know what direction the director is going in; and chances are the producers have more say in that than anyone, hence setting up the guidelines prior to things even starting. Having grown up in the theatre it was always VERY clear that the person paying the bills told everyone exactly what was going to go down, and if that director did not jive with the person with the money, they were gone, simple as that.

But again, I've rarely seen it in theatre where a director was let go because of creative differences with the production staff. That was why it was such a major coo at the latest Spiderman show.

I think the best way for us to agree to disagree or at least for you to understand my position clearly, IMO the producer builds a box. He tells the writer/director/creator that they must stay within said box. But the producer doesn't dictate WHY the box was built in the first place. That comes from the story written on the page. For a producer to be involved in the reason the box is built is, again, the death of artistic ingenuity. And *yes* artistic ingenuity on its own may be the death of artistic ingenuity (e.g. you may create something that no one wants to see and so leaves you broke and homeless), but that *shouldn't* happen if you have the right set of people around you or a firm producer hat who can take the reigns.

Artist: Creates the reason

Producer: Builds the box

Technicians and Artists: Play within the confines of the box

 

[Barry_Green]

What is your metric for success?

Make something, get my money back, and get these folks started on their careers.

 

[Barry_Green]

I moved beyond that point on page 2. And oh, I got amazing treatments. One has a monkey. But don't worry, I totally know where I can get a free monkey.

Monkeys are where it's at. You cannot go wrong with a monkey.

 

[David G. Smith]

Make something, get my money back, and get these folks started on their careers.

If you fellas could put together a project like that and put out a DVD with extensive BTS extras, you would make more than a little bit of cash, IMHO. So, where do I pre-order?

 

[David G. Smith]

And don't skimp on the monkey.