Do you promote that you do aerial video?

BrandonT

BrandonT

Well-known member
I'm looking to get into aerial video. I have been for a while, and it's just a matter of time. But I'm hoping a job works out with a prospective client, and I'll go ahead and go for it. I'm going to go with the Phantom 2 + HD3 gimbal + GoPro 4 Black.

Any way, I was wondering from a business and legal perspective, how you all are setup? Do you promote that you do aerial video on your website, on your Vimeo videos, etc.? Do you do freelance aerial video work for other production companies? Or do you keep it more low-key and just offer it to your clients that you get, any way?

I see these production companies who are based around aerial video, who seem to do well. There's one that seems to get a lot of great work not too far from me, in Atlanta. And then there's incidents like the guy that got fined $10,000 by the FAA for doing contracted commercial work for the University of Virginia.

So I'm looking at it with the perspective of if the ~$1,000 investment (plus a GoPro, because I don't have one yet) is going to end up being something that I pursue work with. Looking at it another way, this is kind of becoming the new thing that a video production company is expected to be able to do. A few years ago, people were still getting into the large sensor camera (DSLR or otherwise) scene. And now it is expected-- as it should be. So my thought is if I keep waiting, am I going to get left behind?

Cheers!
 
Aerial is definitely something I want to get into.

Seems like it's going to pretty much become industry standard eventually, so best to get in early. I own a video production company, primarily, so I write this post with that in mind.

I know a lot of wedding videography companies are now providing this as a service, sometimes as standard. They'll either learn it themselves and buy the kit or otherwise hire in a freelancer.
 
I have an interest in drone cams and would like to do this even if it's just a DJI something. But imagining a flight over a wedding, my general liability insurance company would simply crap their pants. Does anyone have any experience with how insurance carriers treat the increased risk?
 
Get the FAA waiver for commercial drone work before you proceed. If you can't get one then wait for the requirements to possibly become more favorable. The waiver plus insurance would be the selling points for your services. If you try going under the radar and you and your client stand a good chance of getting burned by the FAA.
 
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Not sure about other countries but here in Aus you need a commercial license if you want to do it as part of a business. Most TV stations will ask to see a copy of the operators license for any program that includes drone footage.

When clients have asked for it, I've provided them with a quote to hire a licensed drone operator as part of the budget. When they've questioned why other people can offer it so much cheaper I tell them flatly it is because they are doing it illegally. Usually they decide to not go ahead with the aerial shots, but if they end up going with another (illegally operating) company just so they can get the drone shots, it hasn't bothered me because any client who does not want to operate within the law is probably a client you don't want (what other laws are they willing to break? Copyright? Contractual agreements? Payments?) It's often the same deal when it comes to licensing music - clients ask why other companies will use copyrighted works when I want to charge them to use production music, and I tell them it's because the other companies are breaking the law.
 
Mark Williams said:
Get the FAA waiver for commercial drone work before you proceed. If you can't get one then wait for the requirements to possibly become more favorable. The waiver plus insurance would be the selling points for your services. If you try going under the radar and you and your client stand a good chance of getting burned by the FAA.
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No they don't.

To date, the FAA has never had an enforcement action for commercial use. Not once.
 
jbregar said:
No they don't.

To date, the FAA has never had an enforcement action for commercial use. Not once.
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No they don't what? What are you saying? There are numerous incidents of the FAA harassing drone users. Even if a person is in the right that does not negate possible legal fees should the FAA exercise what it precieves to be its authority.
 
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No one stands a 'good chance of getting burned by the FAA'. Stop with the FUD.

There won't be any legal fees because the FAA has literally NEVER pursued an enforcement action against a UAS pilot for commercial use. They hit Pirker with reckless use, not commercial use. Even most of the informational letters are sent out as a result of what they consider reckless flying... because that's where they have a pretty solid set of rules to stand on.

They've sent out a bunch of letters, but it's never moved past the 'informational letter' stage and it likely never will until their actual rules for commercial use are enacted. The 'rules' the FAA is leaning on to ban commercial use are very murky. Fining someone for violating them is risky for the FAA... there's a chance they'd lose if it went to court. A good chance considering they have a really weird, retroactive interpretation of 'commercial use' that doesn't stand up to common sense. So they huff and puff and try to scare operators.

If you fly safe, chances are good you'll never even catch the attention of the FAA. Perpetuating the FUD and misinformation that's commonplace with drones right now doesn't help at all.

As for the OP, just be careful you know what you're in for. Doing commercial drone AP and AV right is a big undertaking. I'd think hard about whether this is something you want to add to your services rather than just subbing it out when you need it. Flying a big AP setup is a skill that takes a lot of time and practice to develop. Even doing it with a Phantom and a GoPro isn't easy... flying these things smoothly definitely takes practice. I'd suggest starting smaller than a Phantom first... I usually recommend the Blade Nano QX to get the basics of flying a quad down before putting four figures worth of gear in the air.
 
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jbregar said:
As for the OP, just be careful you know what you're in for. Doing commercial drone AP and AV right is a big undertaking. I'd think hard about whether this is something you want to add to your services rather than just subbing it out when you need it. Flying a big AP setup is a skill that takes a lot of time and practice to develop. Even doing it with a Phantom and a GoPro isn't easy... flying these things smoothly definitely takes practice. I'd suggest starting smaller than a Phantom first... I usually recommend the Blade Nano QX to get the basics of flying a quad down before putting four figures worth of gear in the air.
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Couldn't agree more. This is specialist work with specialist gear - a thousand bucks will not make you a player.

The aerial footage I've been supplied with used thousands worth of gear - and those guys pretty much sucked as far as having an eye for what they were doing (or were poorly directed), but they can control the camera and drone from the ground, the camera was pretty stable, and the client could watch the live feed. The good takes they supplied, with a touch of warp stabilizer, were very good.

Drones are like sliders and cranes and steadicams and gimbals and time-lapse rigs in that everyone thinks they're super-cool and they want one after they see some good youtube videos. But of that list of gear, they're probably the most expensive to do right, and take the most skill and practice. And the usual financial tail-chasing should ensue as improved stuff comes out every season.
 
"No one stands a 'good chance of getting burned by the FAA'. Stop with the FUD."

Say what you want but not a day goes by that there is not a story in the news about the FAA sending cease and desist letters to video posters threatening sanctions for commercial drone use. You simply cannot say the FAA is not aggressively pursuing this. Even though I don't believe what the FAA is doing is right and their authority to levy fines is in serious question I would not want to build a business model on commercially flying drones unless I had their waiver. I am just not comfortable with it.
 
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Mark Williams said:
"not a day goes by that there is not a story in the news about the FAA sending cease and desist letters to video posters threatening sanctions for commercial drone use"
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False. The most I've ever heard of the FAA sending is an "education" letter basically stating what they think the rules are. These letters come from the local FAA office, shouldn't make any demands or orders, and carry no legal weight. A "cease and desist" letter is a legal demand letter that's sent out by the FAA's legal department. As far as I know, there has never been a "cease and desist" letter sent by the FAA to a UAS pilot for commercial use, nor has there ever been an enforcement action levied by the FAA for commercial use.

Mark, you're spending too much time reading mainstream media reports about this stuff. They get large swaths of the facts dead wrong when it comes to UAS. For example, how many times have we read in the papers or heard on TV that there's a 400' legal limit for UAS use (whether hobby or commercial)... that's false. The FAA released guidelines as a part of AC 91-57. Guidelines. Guidelines that are voluntary. It even says so in section 1 of AC 91-57. See for yourself: http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/91-57.pdf

Like I said, there's a good reason the FAA hasn't pursued enforcement action (which includes real C&D letters) against UAS operators for commercial use... their regulations on this are VERY VERY murky if not completely unenforceable and there's a very good chance they'd lose a legal fight. If that happened, it would essentially be a free-for-all until they could get regulations in place (which can take years).

I follow this stuff closely and read stuff published by actual lawyers who're working in this area (primarily Brendan Schulman and Peter Sachs). If you want to read the ACTUAL current state of "Drone Law" in the United States, I suggest you start here: http://dronelawjournal.com That page is maintained by Peter Sachs and has a pretty good run down of the truth as opposed to the FUD we get from the mainstream media on this stuff.

As for a Sec 333 waiver, with the NPRM that's been released I think a 333 waiver is a pretty bad business investment unless you can make up the substantial cost ($10-20k in legal fees + the cost of an airman certificate -- up to $20k add'l -- if you don't already have one) within a year or so.
 
We've been flying our drone legally here in Canada for 2 years now(unspecified location licence). I haven't had to promote it as our existing clients already know and take full advantage of the service. Simply owning one is good PR and has landed us bigger projects. To us, it's just another tool to get epic crane and rail shots on a massive scale. The U.S. is really behind Canada and Europe with the use of drones commercially. You have my pitty.
My advice is to aim higher in the food chain and try and get tourism, economic development, municipality work, and avoid realty or small business crap jobs. It's simply not worth the risk to have it up in the air for $300 jobs unless you use a Phantom, then no one will take you seriously anyway. http://www.croweproductions.ca/category/aerial/
 
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