Do I need a Gemini or Ki Pro Mini to Use the S-LOG Firmware Update on the F3?

U

Unicorn Power

Member
I plan on getting an F3 in the very near future. I'm going to purchase the S-LOG firmware update as well so that I can shoot 4:4:4. However, do I have to buy the Gemini, Ki Pro, or any type of recorder to take advantage of the S-LOG firmware?

If so, why? If not, how will it affect my workflow?

Is it possible to simply record the 4:4:4 to the SxS Cards or must I purchase more accessories such as the Gemini?

Tell me if my reasoning is sound: I plan on recording the content to the SxS cards, dumping it on my computer in the native MP4 or M-PEG2 that the SxS cards use, and then transcoding on my computer to ProsRes HQ.

I know that it will take longer, but time is what I have plenty of, not so much money... Am I missing something?
 
Timur will chime in on this one...

But as far as I understand it, an external recorder allows you to take full advantage of S-Log to an uncompressed 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 signal through dual-link. You can shoot S-log to XDCAM EX MP4's, but there will be corners cut because XDCAM EX is a compressed format.

Timur actually has a video on the F3 forum somewhere where he compares the native XDCAM image, the S-log to XDCAM image, and the S-log to on-board recorder image, if I remember right...
 
Jordan Scott Price said:
But as far as I understand it, an external recorder allows you to take full advantage of S-Log to an uncompressed 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 signal through dual-link. You can shoot S-log to XDCAM EX MP4's, but there will be corners cut because XDCAM EX is a compressed format.

Timur actually has a video on the F3 forum somewhere where he compares the native XDCAM image, the S-log to XDCAM image, and the S-log to on-board recorder image, if I remember right...
Click to expand...


Thanks Jordan.

Yes, I saw Timur's vide on the F3 with and without S-LOG. It was awesome. However, I don't recall him comparing it with or without an on-board recorder. If I remember well, they were using a Gemini for the entire shoot...

Since the 4:4:4 is uncompressed, how big do you think the files will be? Similar to Red 4K? Aren't they like 2GB per minute?
 
Unicorn Power said:
Thanks Jordan.

Yes, I saw Timur's vide on the F3 with and without S-LOG. It was awesome. However, I don't recall him comparing it with or without an on-board recorder. If I remember well, they were using a Gemini for the entire shoot...

Since the 4:4:4 is uncompressed, how big do you think the files will be? Similar to Red 4K? Aren't they like 2GB per minute?
Click to expand...

Not sure, but it's probably more than 2 GB/min. Red 4K isn't a straight GB/min ratio - it's dependent on the REDCODE you choose. See attachment for estimated Red Epic file sizes.

I think 4:4:4 is closer to 5 GB/min, but I'm spitballing.
 

Attachments

Wooo.... 444 Uncompressed is 12BG a min.

watch this.... Log recorded to 10bit ProresHQ go to :42 and pause



And this is one of the shots from the sLOG shoot recorded in LOG to sxs then graded. Doesn't look bad, but i didnt go very far with it. Go to :48 and pause.

 
Unicorn Power said:
Thanks Jordan.Yes, I saw Timur's vide on the F3 with and without S-LOG. It was awesome. However, I don't recall him comparing it with or without an on-board recorder. If I remember well, they were using a Gemini for the entire shoot... Since the 4:4:4 is uncompressed, how big do you think the files will be? Similar to Red 4K? Aren't they like 2GB per minute?
Click to expand...
Unicorn: The F3's internal SxS card recording can do SLOG, but it cannot do 444. It can't even do 422. It is limited to 420 and highly compressed. Dramatically stretching a highly compressed image in color correction causes nasty-looking side effects which you won't like, which is why an external recorder is recommended for SLOG.
 
davidsoll said:
Unicorn: The F3's internal SxS card recording can do SLOG, but it cannot do 444. It can't even do 422. It is limited to 420 and highly compressed. Dramatically stretching a highly compressed image in color correction causes nasty-looking side effects which you won't like, which is why an external recorder is recommended for SLOG.
Click to expand...

David,

I see what you mean now. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Having said that, I was still impressed by the image quality of the F3 without S-Log that I shot on last week. It's still a really great camera. I guess the S-Log with recorder just takes it to another level...
 
Unicorn Power said:
David,

I see what you mean now. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Having said that, I was still impressed by the image quality of the F3 without S-Log that I shot on last week. It's still a really great camera. I guess the S-Log with recorder just takes it to another level...
Click to expand...

It really is a beast of a camera. And the S-log patch simply just unlocks all the hidden magic...

I can't wait to shoot on it slog'd here in about a month :D
 
TimurCivan said:
Wooo.... 444 Uncompressed is 12BG a min.

watch this.... Log recorded to 10bit ProresHQ go to :42 and pause

And this is one of the shots from the sLOG shoot recorded in LOG to sxs then graded. Doesn't look bad, but i didnt go very far with it. Go to :48 and pause.
Click to expand...

So funny! Most of the shots were just a few blocks from my apartment... so glad I found this forum.:laugh:

Actually, I really liked the S-Log to SxS with grading shots. I thought that they looked crisp and bright, in a good way, even though I can definitely see the difference between the two setups...

A few more questions, if I don't use an external recorder with the S-Log, can I still use a Ki Pro Mini to record it in ProRes, or will the file sizes be too large?

Also, I understand that the Gemini records in uncompressed DPX file format. Are there any issues with this codec in regard to transcoding in post?
 
Unicorn Power said:
A few more questions, if I don't use an external recorder with the S-Log, can I still use a Ki Pro Mini to record it in ProRes, or will the file sizes be too large?

Also, I understand that the Gemini records in uncompressed DPX file format. Are there any issues with this codec in regard to transcoding in post?
Click to expand...

I don't think you asked what you intended with your first question. If you're asking if the F3 can record to the KPM even if you aren't using S-Log, the answer is yes. The size of the KPM files has more to do with the data rate you select. ProRes likes higher data rates. Even without S-Log you'll notice improvement in certain situations. Not so much with a talking head indoors.

If you're asking if you can record S-Log to internal cards, you can but its harder to grade without banding and more likely to clip.

The uncompressed Gemini files add no compression artifacts so they compress pretty evenly. You can pick an external compressor, like cineform, to make them more storable. Or even a compressed but lossless format to still save a fair amount of space. Compression of the DPX files doesn't present a problem by itself. They are a well known and supported file format.
 
I'd rather have SLOG with NO external recorder than a non-SLOG camera and an external recorder! SLOG is like finding the Holy Grail. Indian Jones was off the mark!
 
This is really interesting. So If I used S-LOG with my Samurai I would still notice a big difference over F3 footage to the Samurai without S-lOG?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top