DMW-DCC8 9.3v or 8.4v ????

jo447

Member
Hi,

I saw many information on this website...
so can we share the experience ?
8.4v works ? or works just at the beginning and then stop ?
the correct voltage is 9.3v ?
 
The Universal 8.4 I bought didn't work for me. I had a 9.6 and now a 9.3 that works perfectly. Another member has the 8.4 that I bought and it worked for them, so results seem to vary slightly.
 
Well, I made my own DCC8 out of wood (see here) and powered it with the same setup as this guy (the battery is made up of 7 cells and is labeled as 8.4), and so far it has given me about 7 hours of time on a single charge. I also just put a meter on it and got 9.07V, so clearly the battery is rated lower than it actually is. If I remember, I'll post again when the camera shuts off with how much time I got in total.
 
I've been following a couple of threads on batteries for the GH2, in anticipation of the time when I finally buy one and have to organise extra power. There does seem to be some misunderstanding about battery voltage requirements, and the reasons they seem to vary, so I'll try and clear it up -- with the caveat that I haven't got a GH2 yet so there may be secondary effects of which I am unaware.

1. Check out my post here re battery voltage when charging discharging NiMhs: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea....2V-7600mAh)&p=2300034&viewfull=1#post2300034

2. The GH2 uses a Lithium-ion battery rated at 7.2 volts, 1200 mAh. Single lithium-ion cells have a rated voltage of ~3.6 volts, thus the GH2 uses two cells in series. The internal electronics of the GH2 will have been designed to operate off this battery i.e. from a voltage of 7.2 volts.

3. However, the battery voltage changes as it is charged and discharged. Lithium-ion cells are very particular about how they are charged. Unlike NiMhs cells which can be trickle charged, overcharged, completely discharged, all of which do not cause much damage, try any of the above with lithium-ions and they will be damaged. Charging of lithium-ion cells is done at a constant voltage of 4.2 volts/cell, and is terminated when the charging current drops below a certain level, something like 0.05C (where C is the capacity). Thus, for the GH2, the charger will be rated at 8.40 volts, and when the charge current drops below ~0.05 x 1200 = 60 mA, charging will be terminated.

4. Lithium ions also do not like being completely discharged. Typically, if they are discharged below 3.0 volts per cell you can expect them to suffer some damage. Thus, the GH2 probably has a low voltage cutoff circuit that will trigger when the voltage is less than about 6.0 volts. That figure is a guess, and when I get my GH2 I will confirm it. The electronics themselves may have a higher or lower cutoff point.

5. The internal circuitry of the GH2 will have a maximum voltage rating, beyond which it will be damaged. This maximum is not specified in the manual. Be very careful about applying anything more than 8.4 volts. See below for more info about why higher voltages appear to work without damaging the GH2.

6. The GH2 specs state that it draws 3.4 Watts (~400 mA) from a 8.4 volt supply under certain specified conditions. This current probably increases as the voltage drops when the battery discharges (I'm assuming constant power), so that for 7.2 volts (for example) at the GH2 battery terminal, the current would be ~470 mA.​


To sum up
The GH2 internally has electronics that, according to the manual, will accept from 8.4 volts down to (a guess) 6.0 volts. So why does the GH2 sometimes not fire up from voltages within this range? Two reasons:

A. The above explanation assumed "hard" voltages -- voltages that remain constant. If you have a power supply that is not properly regulated (the technical term for constant voltage), it's output voltage will decrease when current is drawn. e.g. an 8.4 volt power supply may not be supplying 8.4 volts because of voltage drops within itself. Such a supply can be called "soft". A NiMh battery pack is "soft", the voltage at the GH2's power terminals varying from around 10 volts down to below 6 volts depending on the quality of the battery, its age, the ambient temperature, the state of charge, the current being drawn, the resistance of the connecting leads, and a host of other factors.

B. For any external power supply, there are voltage drops between the supply and the GH2 power terminals (where the Panasonic battery makes connection): you have two voltage drops in the leads from the battery (or AC supply) to the DCC8 adaptor, and two more voltage drops in the DCC8. When using the dedicated battery, these voltage drops are not present because the battery is making direct connection to the GH2 power terminals.


Conclusion
I am almost certain that if you apply a "hard" voltage of between 8.4 volts and 6.6 volts (well away from the assumed cutoff of 6.0 volts), that the GH2 will operate. But, if you have a NiMH battery pack of 7 cells that is a bit long in the tooth, or hasn't been recently charged, or was charged at too low a temperature, or was bought dirt-cheap from a dodgy supplier; or if you have an AC supply that is not of the best quality, then you may find you do need more than 9.0 volts – but that is because of the voltage drops along the way.

I don't know the maximum voltage that can be applied to the internal electronics. "Soft" supplies may very well need to be 9.6 volts or thereabouts to operate the GH2. But if someone takes that as a given and decides that, well, 10 volts is pretty close to 9.6, and unwittingly applies a "hard" 10 volts to the GH2, it could be bye-bye GH2.

The GH2 was designed to run off a lithium-ion battery that is rated at 7.2 volts, but actually varies from 8.4 volts down to about (a guess) 6.0 volts. If you have a supply that is supposedly 8.4 volts but will not operate the GH2, more than likely you have poor connections, poor-quality supply, or voltage drops in the leads.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for this explanation guyburns.

So, the question is actually to know if my input will be "hard" or "soft"...
I will have an adapter plate from 14.4v V-type battery with a capacity of 98Wh. I can choose the output (but I can't modify it after it's done),
I was thinking to ask for a set up at 8.4v but now I'm confused. Is it better to set up at 9.3 or at 9v ?
I will plug a led light, monitor, h4n, and camera on the same battery.
the output will change with the voltage of the battery?
 
DMC-DCC8 voltage

DMC-DCC8 voltage

I've been following a couple of threads on batteries for the GH2, in anticipation of the time when I finally buy one and have to organise extra power. There does seem to be some misunderstanding about battery voltage requirements, and the reasons they seem to vary, so I'll try and clear it up -- with the caveat that I haven't got a GH2 yet so there may be secondary effects of which I am unaware.

1. Check out my post here re battery voltage when charging discharging NiMhs: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea....2V-7600mAh)&p=2300034&viewfull=1#post2300034

2. The GH2 uses a Lithium-ion battery rated at 7.2 volts, 1200 mAh. Single lithium-ion cells have a rated voltage of ~3.6 volts, thus the GH2 uses two cells in series. The internal electronics of the GH2 will have been designed to operate off this battery i.e. from a voltage of 7.2 volts.

3. However, the battery voltage changes as it is charged and discharged. Lithium-ion cells are very particular about how they are charged. Unlike NiMhs cells which can be trickle charged, overcharged, completely discharged, all of which do not cause much damage, try any of the above with lithium-ions and they will be damaged. Charging of lithium-ion cells is done at a constant voltage of 4.2 volts/cell, and is terminated when the charging current drops below a certain level, something like 0.05C (where C is the capacity). Thus, for the GH2, the charger will be rated at 8.40 volts, and when the charge current drops below ~0.05 x 1200 = 60 mA, charging will be terminated.

4. Lithium ions also do not like being completely discharged. Typically, if they are discharged below 3.0 volts per cell you can expect them to suffer some damage. Thus, the GH2 probably has a low voltage cutoff circuit that will trigger when the voltage is less than about 6.0 volts. That figure is a guess, and when I get my GH2 I will confirm it. The electronics themselves may have a higher or lower cutoff point.



5. The internal circuitry of the GH2 will have a maximum voltage rating, beyond which it will be damaged. This maximum is not specified in the manual. Be very careful about applying anything more than 8.4 volts. See below for more info about why higher voltages appear to work without damaging the GH2.

6. The GH2 specs state that it draws 3.4 Watts (~400 mA) from a 8.4 volt supply under certain specified conditions. This current probably increases as the voltage drops when the battery discharges (I'm assuming constant power), so that for 7.2 volts (for example) at the GH2 battery terminal, the current would be ~470 mA.​


To sum up
The GH2 internally has electronics that, according to the manual, will accept from 8.4 volts down to (a guess) 6.0 volts. So why does the GH2 sometimes not fire up from voltages within this range? Two reasons:

A. The above explanation assumed "hard" voltages -- voltages that remain constant. If you have a power supply that is not properly regulated (the technical term for constant voltage), it's output voltage will decrease when current is drawn. e.g. an 8.4 volt power supply may not be supplying 8.4 volts because of voltage drops within itself. Such a supply can be called "soft". A NiMh battery pack is "soft", the voltage at the GH2's power terminals varying from around 10 volts down to below 6 volts depending on the quality of the battery, its age, the ambient temperature, the state of charge, the current being drawn, the resistance of the connecting leads, and a host of other factors.

B. For any external power supply, there are voltage drops between the supply and the GH2 power terminals (where the Panasonic battery makes connection): you have two voltage drops in the leads from the battery (or AC supply) to the DCC8 adaptor, and two more voltage drops in the DCC8. When using the dedicated battery, these voltage drops are not present because the battery is making direct connection to the GH2 power terminals.


Conclusion
I am almost certain that if you apply a "hard" voltage of between 8.4 volts and 6.6 volts (well away from the assumed cutoff of 6.0 volts), that the GH2 will operate. But, if you have a NiMH battery pack of 7 cells that is a bit long in the tooth, or hasn't been recently charged, or was charged at too low a temperature, or was bought dirt-cheap from a dodgy supplier; or if you have an AC supply that is not of the best quality, then you may find you do need more than 9.0 volts – but that is because of the voltage drops along the way.

I don't know the maximum voltage that can be applied to the internal electronics. "Soft" supplies may very well need to be 9.6 volts or thereabouts to operate the GH2. But if someone takes that as a given and decides that, well, 10 volts is pretty close to 9.6, and unwittingly applies a "hard" 10 volts to the GH2, it could be bye-bye GH2.

The GH2 was designed to run off a lithium-ion battery that is rated at 7.2 volts, but actually varies from 8.4 volts down to about (a guess) 6.0 volts. If you have a supply that is supposedly 8.4 volts but will not operate the GH2, more than likely you have poor connections, poor-quality supply, or voltage drops in the leads.



The camera tests the voltage to determine if power comes from the battery or the adapter.
If it is below 8.4V it assumes it is a battery and will try to communicate with the chip inside the battery. If this communication fails the camera will display the message that this battety cannot be used on the camera.

If the voltage is higher than 8.4V (bur under 10V) the camera will assume that the AC adapter is connected.

If the voltage is higher than 10V (I am not sure what the exact treshold level is) it wil NOT power up at all.

I have a Sony AC adapter for a TRV camcorder that is labeled at 8.4V. It works fine. When I tried to extend the wire going to the camera by an extra 6 feet, the camera displayed the message that the battery cannot be used and shut itself off a few second later.

I also connected 7 NiMH batteries (Eneloops, they are the best) getting 8.5V out.
It worked fine with the camera until I tried to extend the wire by 6 feet.
Here again I got the dreaded message bout the battery.

I then added another battery, making its output about 9.9V. This time it worked with and without the extension wire.

Then I found a power supply for the Sony FX820 portable DVD player. It is rated for 9.5V and the plug fits perfectly. This is now my favorite setup.

I also have the GH1 camera which comes with the AC adapter/charger. Looking at the charger it says that the battery charging voltage is 8.4V but the camera powering voltage is 9.3V.
So my conclusion is that the GH2 really needs 9.3 V but will tolerate a bit higher voltage too.
I would not go above 10V.

Hope this clarifies the issue for everyone.

Good luck.
 
Jo477: Post some more details of exactly what battery you have and what you want to do with it, and I'll see if I can offer some suggestions. However, you should be aware that using a 14.4-volt battery will mean you are wasting half of the battery's capacity when using it to drive the GH2 (the GH2 requires 7.2 volts at it power terminals) – unless the conversion from 14.4 volts to 7.2 volts (or whatever voltage you select) is done with a "switcher" circuit. Then you may only be wasting 10-20%, depending on the efficiency of the switcher. More likely, the voltage drop would be done with a 3-pin voltage regulator such as the LM 7809 or, if you wanted to be able to vary the voltage, the LM317 – a relatively simple, cheap, and accurate way to obtain a lower voltage, but you still waste 50% of the battery capacity. If you already have the battery, you may as well use it I suppose.
 
ok guyburns,

the battery I will use is this one :
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...x_XP_L90S_XPL_90S_V_Type_14_4VDC_Lithium.html
and the adapter for the vmount plate is this one :
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=9099071019
It's in chinese but I had a chinese friend to help me and the customer service is really good. They can change the 7,2v output for another value I can choose.

The battery does not seem to be rechargeable. At such a high price using only 2/3 of its capacity is very wasteful in my opinion.
If you can try to get 9 to 9.6 volts oou of the battery. That will work with the GH2. If the voltage is under 8.4 the camera will try the proprietary communication handshake with it and it will fail.

Good luck.
 
The battery does not seem to be rechargeable. At such a high price using only 2/3 of its capacity is very wasteful in my opinion.
If you can try to get 9 to 9.6 volts oou of the battery. That will work with the GH2. If the voltage is under 8.4 the camera will try the proprietary communication handshake with it and it will fail.

Good luck.

That is definitely a rechargeable third party v-mount battery, v-mount is always expensive. What do you mean using only 2/3 of its capacity? Why would it only be using 2/3? But yeah that power converter might not be a good match, since it sounds like you'll want 9v power.

I was thinking about using this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/POWER-SUPPLY-12...411?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56411911a3
I have 12v li-ion batteries, and want to power a 12v monitor, 9v GH2, and a 5v wireless HDMI transmitter.

I havent been able to get a DCC8 coupler yet though, anyone know of a good way to get one? I was about to order one from HandB but they seem to be out of stock now...
 
That is definitely a rechargeable third party v-mount battery, v-mount is always expensive. What do you mean using only 2/3 of its capacity? Why would it only be using 2/3?
Getting 9v out of 14.4 is about 2/3.

But yeah that power converter might not be a good match, since it sounds like you'll want 9v power.

I was thinking about using this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/POWER-SUPPLY-12...411?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56411911a3
I have 12v li-ion batteries, and want to power a 12v monitor, 9v GH2, and a 5v wireless HDMI transmitter.

That might work for you.

I havent been able to get a DCC8 coupler yet though, anyone know of a good way to get one? I was about to order one from HandB but they seem to be out of stock now...

Try Adirama or Panasonic parts department.

Good luck.
 
Jo447: You'll have no problem with the Switronix XPL-90S battery (14.4 volts, 6600 mAh, http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...C_Lithium.html). Should power the GH2 alone for about 12 hours if driven from a non-switcher circuit, and about 20 hours via a switcher circuit. And it comes at a good price - $250.

I know a fair bit about batteries, but not a lot about the gadgets that go with them. So I'm learning. If my understanding is correct, this battery has what they call a P-tap socket, that allows the 14.4 volts of the battery to be connected to other devices. That bit I can understand. The other stuff has got me confused. So to clear up my confusion, I'll make a few notes here for my future reference. Correct me if any of what follows is wrong.

B&H have the Switronix GP-S mounting plate (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/438801-REG/Switronix_GP_S_12_GP_S12_V_Mount_Adapter.html) which is where the battery mounts (I assume). Note: B&H is wrong when it states this device has a 7.2 volt tap. It does not.

Switronix describes the mounting plate (http://www.switronix.com/products/b...page=flypage.tpl&product_id=66&category_id=42) as having one input and two outputs, all unregulated at 11-17 volts. Why that particular voltage range? Well, Li-ion cells should never be discharged lower than 2.7 volts per cell else serious damage will occur (when I test the capacity of Li-ions, I never discharge them lower than 3.3 volts, to stay well away from potential damage). Thus the Switronix battery has an internal protection circuit to protect against what they call "over discharge". They have set theirs at 11/4 = 2.75 volts.

Where does the 17 volt limit come from? Well, Li-ions should not be charged higher than 4.2 volts per cell. Switronix has set their max voltage slightly higher, at 17/4 = 4.25 volts.

So, the battery you have chosen is protected at both ends: lowest discharge = 2.75, highest charge = 4.25. They also have over temperature protection to protect the cell against high temperature when fast charging. Li-ions are fussy little beggars.

The battery is now on a plate, but there is no suitable voltage for the GH2. We need a DC-DC converter, such as the Switronix DSLR-P (http://www.switronix.com/products/b...page=flypage.tpl&product_id=90&category_id=39), specially designed for the GH1, but would also be suitable for the GH2 – though it would need the DCC8 to access the GH2's power terminals. The DSLR-P accepts an unregulated 11-17 volts input, passes that straight to a P-Tap for other devices to use, and also has a regulated 9.2 volts output for the GH1. Aha! – Switronix have decided that to provide the GH1 with an appropriate voltage to work properly, and to accommodate all the voltage drops along the way, that they need to provide a regulated 9.2 volts.

So there's one answer to the external supply voltage question – Switronix has decided on 9.2 volts, based on their knowledge of:

1. the characteristics of their circuitry (for example, the 9.2 volts may not remain at 9.2 volts as the current rises);
2. the resistance of the cable they supply;
3. the resistance of the wires in the DCC8;
4. the resistance in the connectors.
5. the maximum current drawn by the GH2 under the most demanding conditions;

Taking all those voltage drops into account, Switronix has decided that 9.2 volts will power a GH1 (and presumably a GH2) under all conditions. As for the Chinese mount you mentioned, it looks professional enough, and judging by the components on the board it appears to use switcher-type circuitry. But you should confirm that, as well as the voltages available.

Now I've got a question: In the description of the mounting plate, Switronix says:

The GP-S V-Type plate mounts on to the camera to provide a quick release connection with V-Type mount batteries.

Is this plate, with battery, mounted onto the GH2 somehow? Or do you just carry it around on your belt.
 
(sorry guyburns, I didn't see your reply)

I just bought one from the ebay seller buyfromjapan today. He was out of stock last week but if you keep checking his stock you might get one (doesn't last more than 3 - 4 days on ebay, and it's very expensive - 50$ including shipping....)
Now, I have to cancel my order for another one that never arrived....

Your system would be a little bit too much for a dslr rig and it seems to deliver only 1amp... so 5w maximum for the 5v output ? I think the H4n need 5v and use 5w so that might be a little too weak. I don't know for the power consumption of your wireless device.

now concerning the v-mount battery. it 98wh at 14.4v.... so around 6800 mAh. If I use this battery to feed only the camera that will be 6.8A x 9v = 61Wh (the camera use 3.4W so I will have almost 18 hours of power...)
of course I will use it for the H4n at 5w, the led light at 7w and the monitor at 10w...so around 25w (at different voltage), but it should be enough to give me 2 to 3 hours with only one battery.

Now I can understand that there will be a little bit of power waste somewhere in the middle of these conversions. But 33% of waste seems to be a lot...
 
Last edited:
you can use this plate to fix the v-mount plate on the 15mm rodes of your dslr rig
http://store.zacuto.com/Zwiss-Plate.html

but on the taobao link you can see the power adapter has a 15mm rodes connection. So the plate can be fixed at the end of the dslr and give you a good counter weight.

Unfortunately I don't know a lot about battery (I had to check online for the electricity conversions). But I remember my first professional camera used NP batteries and on the display the battery indicator was a Volt value. It start around 15v and the camera stopped under 12v (the battery was 14.4v)
 
Im just gonna throw my hat in here and see what bites.

I saw a thread some while ago about alternative GH2 power sources and one user confirmed that this battery from Tekkeon works fine with the GH2s DC Coupler.
It has the right connector and voltage selector for it to work.
Plus there is a nice cost benefit as it is just under $150 and offers a 58WH capacity, comparable to some more expensive battery solutions.
For mounting, I think something like this shoe mount adapter (found here)http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/ID#: 0703190 would work well with some velcro.
What do you think? Would all of this work?
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the link to the Tekkeon battery. Looks pretty good too. It will be going on my list of battery possibilities.

A problem with your post: the link to "this shoemount adapter" goes straight back to dvx.
 
Thanks for the link to the Tekkeon battery. Looks pretty good too. It will be going on my list of battery possibilities.

A problem with your post: the link to "this shoemount adapter" goes straight back to dvx.

Ok I fixed the link now.
Size wise the adapter is pretty close to the Tekkeon's size and it has a flat side thats perfect for any number of mounting solutions.
Seems like a great way to add a 1/4-20 mount to anything with a flat surface.
 
I'm not following your last post. I looked at the shoemount adaptor, and it looks like something that goes on the shoe that an external flash connects to. So are you thinking of mounting the battery on top of the camera?

Also, I don't understand how that shoemount adaptor is "a great way to ad a 1/4-20 mount". That square bit sticking out in the B&H photo, does that mount to the hot shoe, and then tightened with the round knob? On the other side of the mount, I assume there is a standard 1/4" tripod-type mounting bolt. Wouldn't that be in the way of a battery? Or is the battery threaded onto that bolt?
 
I'm not following your last post. I looked at the shoemount adaptor, and it looks like something that goes on the shoe that an external flash connects to. So are you thinking of mounting the battery on top of the camera?

Also, I don't understand how that shoemount adaptor is "a great way to ad a 1/4-20 mount". That square bit sticking out in the B&H photo, does that mount to the hot shoe, and then tightened with the round knob? On the other side of the mount, I assume there is a standard 1/4" tripod-type mounting bolt. Wouldn't that be in the way of a battery? Or is the battery threaded onto that bolt?

From what I can see the adapter has a flat surface on one side and on the other it has a shoe mount with a 1/4-20 mount built into it.
So if you wanted to mount something (like our Tekkeon Battery for instance) unto a male 1/4-20 thread (many DSLR rigs have these) then this adapter would work.
Using velcro or epoxy, we'd attach the battery to the flat side of the shoe adapter then screw the female 1/4-20 part of the adapter unto whatever 1/4-20 male thread you want.
Alot of rigs feature a 1/4-20 thread so it seems like a good match to me.
Im sure the shoe mount part of the adapter works just like a regular shoe mount and so it serves double purpose and is adaptable based on what you have available for mounting.
I plan to use both options actually :)
 
Back
Top