DJI Zenmuse X5S - 5.2K Raw & Prores - USD $1,899.00

D

DaveyRoberts

Member
DJI Zenmuse X5S - 5.2K Raw & Prores - USD $1,899.00

http://store.dji.com/product/zenmuse-x5s?site=brandsite&from=buy_now_bottom#/?_k=4ht087

CMOS, 4/3”
Effective Pixels: 20.8MP

CinemaDNG
5.2K: 5280×2970
23.976/24/25/29.97p,12-bit,up to 4.2Gbps
5.2K: 5280×2160
23.976/24/25/29.97p,12-bit
4K: 4096×2160,3840×2160
23.976/24/25/29.97/47.95p,12-bit,up to 3.6Gbps
4K: 4096×2160,3840×2160
50/59.94p,10-bit

ProRes
5.2K: 5280×2160
23.976/24/25/29.97p,10-bit,422HQ@1.8Gbps
4K: 3840×2160
23.976/24/25/29.97p,10-bit,422HQ@1.3Gbps
4K: 3840×2160
23.976/24/25/29.97p,10-bit,444HQ@2.1Gbps

H.264
C4K:4096×2160
23.976/24/25/29.97/47.95/50/59.94p @100Mbps
4K: 3840×2160
23.976/24/25/29.97/47.95/50/59.94p @100Mbps
2.7K: 2720×1530
23.976/24/25/29.97p @80Mbps 47.95/50/59.94p @100Mbps
FHD: 1920×1080
23.976/24/25/29.97p @60Mbps 47.95/50/59.94p @80Mbps 119.88p @100Mbps

H.265
C4K: 4096×2160
23.976/24/25/29.97p @100Mbps
4K: 3840×2160
23.976/24/25/29.97p @100Mbps
2.7K: 2720×1530
23.976/24/25/29.97p @65Mbps 47.95/50/59.94p @80Mbps
FHD: 1920×1080
23.976/24/25/29.97p @50Mbps 47.95/50/59.94p @65Mbps 119.88p @100Mbps
 
Stunning. The short film. And the IQ.

Of course DJI went overboard using the Inspire2 in shots nobody would have had a floating cam, and would have rather had the camera on sticks or on a MOVI/steadicam/Jib, but they really wanted to prove a point. Yet the camera still delivered in those very harsh, unthinkable conditions, up to TV drama standards (well almost).

This is a game changer. In terms of price, features and image quality. We're up to a point where cheap tools are almost as good as the professional ones (well, except for lighting. There's no substitute for a bunch of 18k HMI outdoors).

For regular commercial work, DPs will still use an ALEXMini, ARRI remote FF, Teradek, MOVI and Alta Copter. That's €85k without lenses. Being 90% there with the Inspire2+5S for just €5k is simply insane.
I even forsee many pro productions having some Inspire2 as a spare, or even using it as a B/C unit.

BTW, having a Cam Op running around inside a house shooting with an helicopter in his hands is just hilarious.



On the other hand, I think some BIG worldwide electronic manufacturers could take a note or two on how to make a really good promo of their products. This short is so on another level.
 
Except the X5S is completely useless right now unless it's on an Inspire 2... because DJI put the processing pipeline for the camera in the Inspire's airframe rather than in the camera module where it belongs.

Also, what I'd consider a "minimum kit" for shooting ProRes on the X5S/Inspire 2 ends up at over $9k...

Inspire 2 Airframe - $2999
X5S Camera Module - $1899
ProRes "License" - $500
Two spare sets of batteries - $159/batt * 4 = $636
Second operator controller - $549
(3) CINESSD 480GB cards - $2697
CINESSD Reader - $150

For a grand total of $9,429.00

At that price level, you're into (or over) Matrice 600 Pro / Ronin MX level where you can put your existing camera with your existing workflow on it. I priced out a Matrice 600 Pro setup that had the same number of sets of batteries and it ended up in the $8300 range.

I also think you're insane if you put nearly $10,000 in the air on a quadcopter platform. You lose a prop, motor or ESC and your five-figure investment is going to end up a pile of scrap plastic and carbon fiber. At that price level, redundancy is a MUST. That means a hexacopter or octocopter with a flight controller that can remap and still fly when it loses a prop/motor/ESC... ideally with redundant IMU and compass/GPS modules.
 
Image quality in the short film is great. ProRes is great to have. I'm curious how good the h.265 is. h.265 looked quite good on the Samsung NX1.

The DJI Inspire One X5r I believe was $8000 just a year ago, and now is $5400. I feel the price point of this is a bit high, and it will be more interesting in a year or two when the price is closer to $4,000-5,000.

Can ProRes be recorded to the SD card?


jbregar said:
I also think you're insane if you put nearly $10,000 in the air on a quadcopter platform. You lose a prop, motor or ESC and your five-figure investment is going to end up a pile of scrap plastic and carbon fiber. At that price level, redundancy is a MUST. That means a hexacopter or octocopter with a flight controller that can remap and still fly when it loses a prop/motor/ESC... ideally with redundant IMU and compass/GPS modules.
Click to expand...
Number of props, motors, etc., becomes irrelevant when comparing to actual data of reliability of these products. Is the Inspire One known for having a much higher rate of failure than various hexacopters or octocopters? A full size helicopter carrying humans generally has one overhead prop, so why would a comparatively cheap drone need 6-8 props?
 
Last edited:
jindrich said:
Stunning. The short film. And the IQ.

Of course DJI went overboard using the Inspire2 in shots nobody would have had a floating cam, and would have rather had the camera on sticks or on a MOVI/steadicam/Jib, but they really wanted to prove a point. Yet the camera still delivered in those very harsh, unthinkable conditions, up to TV drama standards (well almost).

This is a game changer. In terms of price, features and image quality. We're up to a point where cheap tools are almost as good as the professional ones (well, except for lighting. There's no substitute for a bunch of 18k HMI outdoors).

For regular commercial work, DPs will still use an ALEXMini, ARRI remote FF, Teradek, MOVI and Alta Copter. That's €85k without lenses. Being 90% there with the Inspire2+5S for just €5k is simply insane.
I even forsee many pro productions having some Inspire2 as a spare, or even using it as a B/C unit.

BTW, having a Cam Op running around inside a house shooting with an helicopter in his hands is just hilarious.



On the other hand, I think some BIG worldwide electronic manufacturers could take a note or two on how to make a really good promo of their products. This short is so on another level.
Click to expand...

Comparing an Alexa Mini on an Alta to an Inspire and then saying you're 90% there is a bit over the top in my book. I was the owner of an Inspire Pro and am now the owner of an Alta (having flown the FS5 on it and now waiting for my Kinefinity Terra 6K). Leaving things like image quality, choice of glass etc aside after having flown the Alta I just cannot go back to the Inspire. The biggest difference? Controllability!! Having the ability to adjust climbing and movement speeds on the RC controller, being able to adjust gains for manual flight and just the flyability of the rig is so much better it's very hard to go back to the Inspire after that.

Now having the Inspire 2 come to a usable total cost of about 10k I would argue that money could be better spend on an Alta6 and Movi M5 and lift a (small) camera of choice.
 
robbertvw said:
Comparing an Alexa Mini on an Alta to an Inspire and then saying you're 90% there is a bit over the top in my book. I was the owner of an Inspire Pro and am now the owner of an Alta (having flown the FS5 on it and now waiting for my Kinefinity Terra 6K). Leaving things like image quality, choice of glass etc aside after having flown the Alta I just cannot go back to the Inspire. The biggest difference? Controllability!! Having the ability to adjust climbing and movement speeds on the RC controller, being able to adjust gains for manual flight and just the flyability of the rig is so much better it's very hard to go back to the Inspire after that.

Now having the Inspire 2 come to a usable total cost of about 10k I would argue that money could be better spend on an Alta6 and Movi M5 and lift a (small) camera of choice.
Click to expand...

An ALEXA Mini with Teradek, motor FF+WCU4, Cooke/Master Prime prime, stabilizer and Gryphon Dynamics Copter goes for well over €125k. That's a lot of money to loose if something goes wrong. Last month at an Audi commercial shot over a cliff at a mediterranean island, the director ordered to install cumbersome and slow to install Panther cranes and a russian arm for fearing having the copter rig fall into the sea.
I know the Inspire2 can't be compared to an Alexa with a master prime, but at commercials shots are a second or less. IQ might be enough (test pending). BMCCs have already been used along Alexas in high-end commercials due to their small size and low cost. The same will happen with the new Inspire2 now shooting RAW. Losing €5k for a mistake is bearable.
And it might save a lot of time ($$$) on a shoot.

As I said, I see the new Inspire2 in a lot of professional shootings. Even in live broadcast. €5k to deploy an aerial cam with live SDI, and full remote control? Game changer.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
Can ProRes be recorded to the SD card?
Click to expand...

No. Only to the SSDs. The only thing that can be recorded to the microSD is the H.264/H.265 codec.

Number of props, motors, etc., becomes irrelevant when comparing to actual data of reliability of these products. Is the Inspire One known for having a much higher rate of failure than various hexacopters or octocopters? A full size helicopter carrying humans generally has one overhead prop, so why would a comparatively cheap drone need 6-8 props?
Click to expand...

There's a failure rate inherent in every piece of kit. Things like motors and ESCs are under tremendous strain and do fail, especially when used in hot or dirty conditions. Props come loose (there are many documented cases of props coming loose on Inspire 1s and the Inspire 2 uses the same general locking mechanism). Props strike things and break. I had a Phantom fall from the sky when one of the prop mounting shafts just spontaneously broke off. There was no visible metal fatigue prior (I inspect before every flight) and the Phantom had less than 50 flight hours on it. The point is, these things happen... the problem here is that if your $9 prop on this thing breaks or comes loose, you now have a $10,000 pile of trash instead of $1000 for the Phantom.

Comparing a multi-rotor with a single rotor full-scale helicopter is a good indication you really have no idea what you're talking about. Full-scale helicopters are built to much higher standards and maintained to far, far higher standards. The chances of the prop on a helo flying off are slim and none. If the motor were to fail in a helo, you can auto-rotate it down because it has a variable-pitch prop.

A "comparatively cheap" drone needs 6-8 props because current quadcopters (including the I2) can NOT survive the loss of a single prop. A hexacopter like the Matrice 600 CAN. In fact, I believe the A3 flight controller in the M600 can remap to survive losing two props.

A better question is why would you want to be in a situation where a $10 piece of plastic or a $50 motor failing stands an almost 100% chance that you're out $10,000? Especially when you can get a Matrice 600 Pro/Ronin MX combo for LESS money and fly pretty much any (reasonable) camera you want?
 
Last edited:
jindrich said:
An ALEXA Mini with Teradek, motor FF+WCU4, Cooke/Master Prime prime, stabilizer and Gryphon Dynamics Copter goes for well over €125k. That's a lot of money to loose if something goes wrong. Last month at an Audi commercial shot over a cliff at a mediterranean island, the director ordered to install cumbersome and slow to install Panther cranes and a russian arm for fearing having the copter rig fall into the sea.
I know the Inspire2 can't be compared to an Alexa with a master prime, but at commercials shots are a second or less. IQ might be enough (test pending). BMCCs have already been used along Alexas in high-end commercials due to their small size and low cost. The same will happen with the new Inspire2 now shooting RAW. Losing €5k for a mistake is bearable.
And it might save a lot of time ($$$) on a shoot.

As I said, I see the new Inspire2 in a lot of professional shootings. Even in live broadcast. €5k to deploy an aerial cam with live SDI, and full remote control? Game changer.
Click to expand...


Except the Inspire 2 spec'd to rival an Alta with a RED hanging under it ISN'T $5k. It's closer to $10k. Unless you're planning on only owning 1 set of batteries and no media that can record RAW/ProRes. Those SSDs are $900 each.
 
Any production and equipment owner should have insurance to cover damage to equipment, property and injury to people on any set. Not always the case on smaller productions or if flying a phantom, but when you're talking $10k, you'd better believe I'd have all the insurance. In most commercial sets or working for corporate clients, they wouldn"t even allow you on set without it...not to mention all the other layers of insurance.

The danger as I see it is not so much losing equipment, but the expense of wasted time on set, or worst, injury to people. And while the redundancy of larger systems is definitely a major plus, a small inspire is less likely to cause fatal injuries in the event of a crash.

Long story short, I would not have a problem putting up any amount of investment in the air, because I'd only do it with the proper insurance. The only risk to take into account is inconvenience to others in case of property damage, or worst, injury to others in case of an error.
 
jindrich said:
An ALEXA Mini with Teradek, motor FF+WCU4, Cooke/Master Prime prime, stabilizer and Gryphon Dynamics Copter goes for well over €125k. That's a lot of money to loose if something goes wrong. Last month at an Audi commercial shot over a cliff at a mediterranean island, the director ordered to install cumbersome and slow to install Panther cranes and a russian arm for fearing having the copter rig fall into the sea.
I know the Inspire2 can't be compared to an Alexa with a master prime, but at commercials shots are a second or less. IQ might be enough (test pending). BMCCs have already been used along Alexas in high-end commercials due to their small size and low cost. The same will happen with the new Inspire2 now shooting RAW. Losing €5k for a mistake is bearable.
And it might save a lot of time ($$$) on a shoot.

As I said, I see the new Inspire2 in a lot of professional shootings. Even in live broadcast. €5k to deploy an aerial cam with live SDI, and full remote control? Game changer.
Click to expand...

But you're comparing apples to oranges. You see Inspire 2's being used in professional shooting situations. So that Inspire 2 will be close to (or over) 10k.
Now built a comparable rig out on an Alta (or cheaper M600) and you're looking at, yes more money, but not that much more. Now if you already own a camera that could go on the Alta it get's even closer.
What the Alta then gives if I compare it to the Inspire 1 which I have both flown is way better controllability and flyability. And in my eyes those are the two most important aspects in getting the best aerial footage.

Of course I haven't flown an Inspire 2 yet but if that will fly similar to the Inspire 1 it will annoy the hell out of me compared to the big stuff.
 
When I mention those "€5k costs", that's the amount you lose if an Inspire2 crashes. That's bearable for many productions and the insurance over that will be low, unlike the insurance on a €125-€150k Alexa-copter (custom made, ALTAs aren't trustable enough for what I've been told).

So yes, I see Inspire2 in pro productions, being so cheap -in VERY controlled environments and open fields with NO PEOPLE around. They're small and the amount of possible damage is lower compared to 2m wide pro copters with big fins. For More demanding jobs there's always those 4-team Pro Copter rentals, with the usual €25M liability insurance.
 
Fantastic product, sure. Game changer, no. Throw it onto the huge and growing pile of excellent tools.

Get ready for an abundance of sky to ground shots that made it into a script because of a cool toy, rather than actually serving the story.
 
rob norton said:
Fantastic product, sure. Game changer, no. Throw it onto the huge and growing pile of excellent tools.

Get ready for an abundance of sky to ground shots that made it into a script because of a cool toy, rather than actually serving the story.
Click to expand...

Yes Indeed! It's amazing the accessible tools we have today. When I got into this industry I could only DREAM.

You are right. There will be an overflow of sky to ground shots now since virtually anyone can afford some type of copter now. Just like the DSLR shallow DOF explosion a few years ago.....
Now it will be over-used.
 
firehawk said:
You are right. There will be an overflow of sky to ground shots now since virtually anyone can afford some type of copter now. Just like the DSLR shallow DOF explosion a few years ago.....
Now it will be over-used.
Click to expand...
You guys are talking as if drones just became accessible. Drone shots have been being overused for a couple or few years now.

I haven't gotten a drone yet because I've yet to have a project that actually needed a drone shot, and never felt the need to force drone shots into my regular projects just because it's "cool."

Though when I do eventually get a project that would benefit from drone shots, then it will become a choice between buying or hiring a drone operator.
 
I'm in the same boat Eric, I've not been interested in purchasing a drone yet. The mavic is the first to gain my attention i.e. there's nearly no reason to not keep one in the glove box just in case.

I know drones have been around for a while but it's the first time they're really pushing the IQ being competitive on these productions combined with also being a handheld gimbal.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
Can ProRes be recorded to the SD card?
Click to expand...

Technically, yes. ProRes Standard is 500 Mbps and V90 SDXC cards are 720 Mbps (ProRes HQ is 770 and slightly above the stated minimum but some V90 cards may work). Unfortunately, I don't think there are any V90 cards are there yet.

And, with V60,s you're down to ProRes LT (or 1080 HQ at 220 Mbps).

A full size helicopter carrying humans generally has one overhead prop, so why would a comparatively cheap drone need 6-8 props? ..
Click to expand...
A non-military chopper starts at somewhere around $1M for a 2-seater. A 6-8 seater is in the mid seven digits. (military is in another league price-wise).

Of course, you can buy used Russian choppers but those are indeed prone to "hard landings".

jindrich said:
... On the other hand, I think some BIG worldwide electronic manufacturers could take a note or two on how to make a really good promo of their products. This short is so on another level.
Click to expand...
I was turned off by the opening (1939 was not the "end of the Great Depression") but the footage does look like a high end production. Which is what one ought to get with an Oscar winning cinematographer.

To me, the BTS was actually more interesting than the short.
 
I think the "just get an Alta or Matrice for the same price" philosophy is silly. I have a Red Weapon, it's my main cam, I would never send my A Cam up in drone. If you have a second cam like a Scarlet or a Raven sure, but main cam? No way. And like it's been said, you don't shoot an entire project with "specialty gear" like drones, gimbals, etc. If I see another project shot completely on a Ronin just because...ugh...I digress.

For the amount of drone shots I cut together with my Red footage, my Phantom 4 has been working out "ok" but it could definitely benefit from RAW. And once the Osimo adapter comes along for the new Zenmuse camera, it'll make the Inspire 2 package all that much better. A 5k RAW flying platform for $10 grand and camera that you can use as a B Cam? Sign me up!
 
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