DIY 4' Florescent 4 bank Project. Do I need Kino Flo 5500K Bulbs?

Phil Rhodes said:
With regard to colour accurate tubes and the unavailability of the Philips stuff in the US, a friend of mine in LA tells me the favourite there is the GE Chroma 50:

http://www.buylightfixtures.com/ge-chroma50-fluorescent-light-bulbs.aspx

These are T12 so they're larger than the T8 types we've mainly been discussing. It's often possible to put T8 tubes in T12 clips, but not vice versa.

I have not used them.
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Thanks. Very cool info. What I've learned is the T8 lamps are considered more for industrial use than the T12 versions so companies don't feel higher CRI values are necessary.
I might have look into changing my choice of using the T8 fixture going forward. I have the Kino Flo 5500K T8's coming mid week. The T12's are brighter too so might be a better all around choice.
 
Phil Rhodes said:
I think you might be be misunderstanding the idea of them being more powerful. Two 4-foot runs of Yuji's strip works out to roughly 43W, so assuming you used similar diffusion, it'd be brighter. That's not really the point, though.

You have to ask: why are we talking about buying devices designed to approximate fluorescent form factor with LED technology for a homebrew project? There's nothing intrinsically good or useful about a four foot long, inch-and-a-quarter tube. It just makes them bulky, expensive, and less effective. Even if you had an old Kino-Flo you wanted to convert to LED, I'd query it. What is a Kino-Flo, once you overlook the tubes and the ballasts? It's a fold of almost-cardboard with a clamp on the back.

What this is really about is fashionability. The Los Angeles movie production scene has decided that these Quasar tubes are acceptable. This is a largely arbitrary decision. Yes, there are jobs on which one could not turn up with anything homebrew, and it is worth spending $280 per four-foot, four-bank unit so you can have something with the appropriate branding on it.

Now, if you wanted an actual, technical objection, it would be that the LED strip might consume a given wattage, but it's resistively-ballasted and possibly a bit less efficient, photoelectrically speaking, than the Quasar tubes. Someone would need to perform some basic tests to find that out.

Hail Kinda-Flo!
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Ok... I've gotta go back to this post Phil - to make sure I understand your point. I understand your questioning into the 4 foot tube form factor when building a DIY solution (especially if it's only use is to light a backdrop). But I'm not sure I then follow your objection to the Quasar tubes to use in those existing fixtures many of us far from Hollywood may already have (whether Mole or Kino or other similar). I don't have a dog in the fight really ... but are you saying extending the life of products we might already own - with the soft, dialable output of the Quasar tubes - is only because we think it's "fashionable" to show up on a gig with those certain brand names and that there are many other sources out there that can give similar soft output that we're passing up in our vanity? If so, please point me in that direction.
 
I disagree with the idea that a 4' long tube isn't useful. I've been in lots of studios that use them to light backgrounds and full body shots of talent. They give off a broad even light that you just can't get with a fresnel or even a Diva. The longer LED fixtures we are seeing like the DMG Lumière are gaining in popularity but these cost over $3K per fixture. As for the Quasar LED Lamps? If you have a fixture that works and need a broad light source why not! I personally think the higher end models are to expensive and would look for other solutions.

I agree showing up to a paid gig with Home Depot lights isn't a good idea. We all have different clients so it's really not a blanket statement. Reliability and durability with DIY stuff can cause issue if it fails during a shoot. Then your client will see what it is and it might make you look bad. I say might again because everyone has different clients and gets compensated at different rates.
 
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Phil Rhodes said:
What this is really about is fashionability. The Los Angeles movie production scene has decided that these Quasar tubes are acceptable. This is a largely arbitrary decision. Yes, there are jobs on which one could not turn up with anything homebrew, and it is worth spending $280 per four-foot, four-bank unit so you can have something with the appropriate branding on it.
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I would actually say that there is much more emphasis on the need for name brands in the lower budget world from what I constantly hear on boards like this, where clients mandate certain cameras, matteboxes are required to "dress up" cameras, and overall you are judged on the gear you show up with. In what Phil describes as the "Los Angeles movie production scene", I have experienced little to no expectations from above on what type or brand of lighting gear we use, and in fact most gaffers bring their own homebuilt bits and pieces for specialty use. Example would be before Litegear started selling the Litemat assemblies, a lot of gaffers were building their own fixtures with diffusion fronts etc.

Likewise, I think the concept of "fashion" is much more applicable in the lower budget world as I see more people buying based on their favorite influencer's recommendations (bloggers, or popular message board folks). I learned about the Quasars at Cinegear a few years ago, and did a camera test with 7 or 8 units where I judged the Quasars to produce the best results for a unit of its type, and started using them instead of Kino tubes wherever possible. Nothing "abitrary" or "fashionable" about my decision. In fact, my gaffer was initially resistant to using them. I can't speak to the rest of the LA production community and why they chose those units.

It's a fair argument to suggest that the fluorescent shape and resulting Kino fixtures are vestigial when considering LED fixtures, but there is utility in the form factor that remains relevant for specific applications, such as underlighting a bar.
 
but are you saying extending the life of products we might already own - with the soft, dialable output of the Quasar tubes - is only because we think it's "fashionable" to show up on a gig with those certain brand names and that there are many other sources out there that can give similar soft output that we're passing up in our vanity?
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The distinction I'm trying to draw here is between what's technically useful and what's convention. I think I mentioned specifically that there are indeed times when it's a good idea to turn up with brand name gear (I was not being facaetious). My discomfort with the refit situation stems from two sources.

First is the fact that a retrofit sacrifices lot of the advantages of LED. Fluorescent tubes are approximated by flat LED panels. Putting the LEDs inside mock tubes and then putting those tubes in a Kino housing creates a result which is, to a degree, bulky, heavy, dim and expensive. What we're arguing over are the nature of circumstances under which that's a worthwhile tradeoff.

Second is the fact that it isn't really clear that you're getting what you wanted from that tradeoff, which is legitimacy. A retrofit is still a kludge. Claims of reliability and acceptability on high end jobs now don't make sense from an engineering standpoint. It's just a kludge that has a sort of poorly-defined social acceptability, which I suspect won't be much of a defence if - to reach for the unlikely - the rewiring job goes flaky and kills someone.

I mean, I have a bunch of lighting I retrofit with metal halide lamps, which have probably just barely paid for themselves, but I'm not going to go around claiming they're real film equipment because they happen to be based on a Source Four PAR.

Edit: Also, the price on the Quasar tubes isn't that extreme. I suspect there's some Chinese product that'll outdo them, though. They're starting to put out some vaguely usable stuff. If you actually want a Kino but want LEDs on the cheap, consider the Nanguang CN-T504. Disclaimer: never used it, but had one on review and put a colour meter on it. Eyebrow-raisingly good.

Further reading: Feynman.

P
 
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The other side of the coin is that sometimes the modification works so well that it is turned into a real workhorse product that builds a reliable reputation with owners. The kludge that starts the mod is always only as good as the person causing the kludge. While I hate doing work like that, most of my kludges would continue life for a good long (and safe) time, but I have my personal standards and kludges never live very long around me.
 
I just made some of these workshop lights for my upcoming feature after seeing the Film Riot video for a DIY bar light. Seemed like a good idea to simply use a tube shop light for a cheap Kino-style light and they work great! Only thing is you don't have the shade for them so they kind of blast the light everywhere. My solution is to use cut out black cardboard flag bases on each end and make a shade out of blackwrap for the middle and gaff and velcro it all down. It's probably not going to look as professional as a Kinoflo, but it will work just the same so who cares? As for bulbs, I've thought about Kinoflo tubes but I wanted to try the Philips Daylight LED tubes I saw at the store and 5000K is close enough to all of my other stuff since I use primarily LED lighting. For greenscreen, I don't know, that would require testing as we use the Reflecmedia solution for that. To note, I built these lights primarily for talent lighting. In any case, aren't there green gels you can get to adjust the light for greenscreen use?
 
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