Discussion of dv.com results

Many thanks to Adam, Barry and all the others for that very interesting test and thread.

Yes, the tests were engineers' tests. Static ; some cameras may not have been tweaked exactly the best way possible ; doubts have been cast over the HVX's samples. Fine.

Still, I know a lot of people on this board expected more from the HVX. I'm one of them. I'm not an engineer, and I may be looking at the figures the wrong way. I'm still very much looking forward to scrutinizing the results of the upcoming Texas Shootout.

But, in spite of all that, and after everything we've heard about the HVX, I *did* expect it to perform better. "Sentimentally", I feel I've been let down somehow. Disappointed. Maybe for no hard, real, scientific or artistic reason, but that's just the way I feel.

I couldn't phrase it better than this : I'm very, very happy I didn't preorder an HVX. More thinking needs to be done. Two months ago I was almost sold on it, now I've become more skeptical. I'm also very, very happy I bought a 100B, and I *will* look into this Andromeda thing a little more seriously.
 
Salatar,

was this example to show the compression artifacts, or noise issues?

Adam has already mentioned that to please forgive the compressed jpeg files.

Dude, you blew up a jpeg frame by 400% !
If it was an uncompressed tif file, that would be a better comparision.

This example does not confirm its a problem with the HVX.

It does confirm the H1 can be really noisy. In Canon's defense, it would of probably looked better if shot at -3dB. Actually, I'm not sure where the gain was set on the Canon. From what I've been reading, I believe it was 0dB.
 
F900 CineAlta won hands down.
I noticed all cameras showed interlacing ,900 and Canon showed less.
The blocky compression artifacts got my attention….
Could be just the test was flawed/rushed
 
even with jpg recompress the DV blockyness of them showed..

add gamma to each jpg and see the lego's
 
SalaTar said:
even with jpg recompress the DV blockyness of them showed..

add gamme to each jpg and see the lego's
Click to expand...


My exact point,
All of the jpegs, even the F900 show the compression artifacts.
 
But as it stands, if the F900 beat the Veri, the Canon beat the hxv...(for me with what was supplied)
 
PappasArts said:
What are you paying for the HD100 alone? If you don't want to say on here, you can email or PM me on DVXuser...



Thanks, I look forward to hearing more..
Click to expand...


Michael, G&G was $4950 and they're one of the dealers offering the IDX package.
Really nice and informed people, got us the camera within 12 hours for this shoot so we could get up to speed with it.

Also, another great deal (I'm doing everything x2 so deals are nice) the Samsung 23" LCD HDTV.
Absolutely the best picture of the dozens we've tested.
It's got component AND VGA inputs so it will work as a full screen playback monitor with FCP as well as a playback monitor directly off of the HD100.
$800 at Best Buy.
This LCD is beautiful, we're doing the 23" for one desk top. 26" for another and the 32" for home....all of them won head to head with Sony, Sharp Aguos, Panasonic...
 
SalaTar said:
Blocky aint the word for it as you bring up gamma on 2 jpegs side by side.
Now this has me baffled (gamma +.22 PC btw)

Photo removed... See below
Click to expand...


Panasonic's Squeeze mode does the same thing on the DVC30. It's the interpolation math they use for uprezzing. Here is an example frame grab from a Panasonic DVC30 when in squeeze mode. Download the screencap and blow it up in your favorite photo viewer/editor and you'll see the phenomena is very similar. The blocks are the result of the math.



panasonicsqueeze.bmp


panasonicsqueeze2.bmp




BTW: This actually is a screencapture and not recompressed by jpg.
 
Maybe this is a weird request, SalaTar, but can you split the chick's face vertically, so we can see an eye/nose/mouth etc. for each camera?
 
I suspect that some of those from the test that said they would buy the HVX and already have one of the other HD cameras said this because they want to add it to their bag of tricks not replace another camera. The variable speed feature is nice but that is probably 10% of your shooting at most.

I also just noticed that Barry mentioned everyone wanted the VariCam. I don't get this? That camera looked horrible in the tests, especially for a 65K+ camera. If you are going to buy something that expensive you have to pay a bit more and get the 900. At 65K the VariCam is an insult.

As far as JVC, I heard the new cameras have the SSE problem fixed and while they admit the lens is not the best (what do you want for a camera under 5K) it's not even as bad as people think. After all, on these other cameras like the Z1 and HVX, you don't even have the option to rent or buy a better lens. By the way, isnt' JVC owned by the same parent company as Panasonic?
 
So they fixed the SSE issue on theHD100's and did a better QC on the lenses.


Can anyone verify this?

If so, how do you know your getting the non "SSE" HD100 and the improved lens.

Personlly If I was to buy the HD100,I would need something that tells me that I am getting the latest ones!

If all true, Kudos to JVC on fixing the issues..

True, the JVC is a bargin. True Bayonet too!


D_and_G said:
About the JVC - I read in another forum that the JVC HD100 SSE issue has been fixed with the latest batch of cameras, and they've tweaked the lens for better Chroma. There are also a couple work arounds if it does occur.
Click to expand...
 
If anything those 400% tests show the H1 and HVX are very comparable res when the image is blown up. The HVX is cleaner too! Atleast that's what it looks like....
 
slut1.jpg

you mean this photo right?:evil:
I like the HVX,
For run and gun but for me its worthless in post
 
FullRez said:
I
I also just noticed that Barry mentioned everyone wanted the VariCam. I don't get this? That camera looked horrible in the tests, especially for a 65K+ camera. If you are going to buy something that expensive you have to pay a bit more and get the 900. At 65K the VariCam is an insult.
Click to expand...

I mentioned earlier I don't understand the picture from the Varicam, I have been on three feature films, all will be out shortly on DVD, that were shot with the varicam. The picture I asaw from the shootout is no where near representative of the Varicams capability.

Rent a varicam and check it out for your self, I perfer it to the cine alta. but thats all subjective.
 
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