Discussion of dv.com results
- Thread starter smelni
- Start date
MattC said:
Hey, Matt--
I can't remember the company, but Barry posted a thread regarding a program that's supposed to be in development for the Mac systems that's like DVrack.
Was it Cinemek that's creating it? It's one of the 35mm guy's products.
But, yeah, I understand. In reality, I'm only lucky guy. My first real indie film will exclude the costs of hardware, more than likely. Thanks to where I'm working or whatever.
I'd be renting a DVX100a if I weren't. :grin:
DP StrangeLove
Well-known member
Justyn said:
That's Why I was considering going with the JVC HD100U, the form factor an interchangable lens, more like the Xl1. But After reports of the stock lens having problems, I can't afford the $12k price tag for the wide angle lens option, and HDV, I went for the HVX.
I will miss the form factor, but I think the other benefits of the HVX outweigh it. And who know, with all of the addtions for the HVX I will add, rods, matte box, monitor, Anton Bauer set-up, it will probably be big enough to rest on my shoulder!
MattC
Veteran
ullanta said:
I remember when DV Rack came out and everyone was so excited about it (I didn't get it because I use a mac. No one seemed bothered about shooting tethered to that?
Now, all of that said, I recently shot some video in Africa and I'll tell ya, even the XL2 seemed big! An HVX would have been perfect for that, although once I get the XL2 out of the box, I prefer holding it so maybe not. But in anycase, I certainly couldn't do what I did tethered. It seems one camera can't do it all... But I would certainly lug some type of affordable "deck" with the canon to get uncompressed footage.
Matt
Justyn
Veteran
I thought about lugging the G5 out for studio shoots, but would stink on location and for company moves. It's friggin heavy and I'm sure tempermental if it's moved from the comforting office/womb.
For now, the canon boys could buy that 10k HD-SDI recorder... Anyone remember that thread a while back.
I'm just happy to be all excited about HD.. Remember when people were so excited about beta or digi-beta? Soon that stuff will be sold by the pound.
For now, the canon boys could buy that 10k HD-SDI recorder... Anyone remember that thread a while back.
I'm just happy to be all excited about HD.. Remember when people were so excited about beta or digi-beta? Soon that stuff will be sold by the pound.
MattC
Veteran
I'm not excited by it, well maybe a little. To me, affordable HD really isn't there yet. It's like watching a child be born, yeah it's nice, but the little feller seems pretty useless right now. Maybe in a few years...
Ok, I know that's ruff, and an overstatement but that's what these tests say to me. I'll be very interested to see what the RED camera does...
Matt
Ok, I know that's ruff, and an overstatement but that's what these tests say to me. I'll be very interested to see what the RED camera does...
Matt
Justyn
Veteran
DP,
One thing you will be happy with is how beefy and PHAT the HVX is. It reminded me of the Arri BL cameras I used in film school. It certainly has some weight to it and was nicely balanced. I am also going to get the rods and all that bizness.
Is the DV rack being made for Mac finally?
One thing you will be happy with is how beefy and PHAT the HVX is. It reminded me of the Arri BL cameras I used in film school. It certainly has some weight to it and was nicely balanced. I am also going to get the rods and all that bizness.
Is the DV rack being made for Mac finally?
Justyn said:
The program isn't from Serious Magic, I believe. Don't quote me.
But, there's one that's similar to DVrack that's supposed to be in development. I think Barry posted it last week or the week before that.
That'll sure prove useful to some people.
You know what though? I just can't wait to start kicking out some footage with one of these new cameras. I guess I want to be one of the firsts to make some concrete stuff. Not just chart tests and nature scenery. Not that nature is bad or anything, or chart tests.
Show me Eternal Sunshine, or The new indie Zombie movie, or another BROKEN (with a better story) shot on the HVX or the XLH1.
By the way, that wasn't an attack on the Broken guys. I enjoyed the extras on the DVD and find myself listening to them for inspiration, along with the November DVD commentary.
Gopher_Greene
Well-known member
Did you guys download the stills and look at those? I can't speak to the tests and measurements, but when I look at the stills, the hvx had the best color reproduction next to the cine alta, even better then its big brother. Now why the varicam didn't hold up I can only conjecture. I have been on three feature films shot with varicams and know the picture qulity to be better then what I saw there. I would have no issue of walking on to a set with the HVX as a b camera to the Varicam.
I have had only one experience with the cine alta, while the picture quality was fine, it took forever to change setups, may have been the operator I don't know. What Adam Wilt did say is
"The Varicam in particular yielded gorgeous images, and those who expressed a preference agreed that if they could take home one camera from the test, based on that one scene, it would be the Varicam."
Based on the stills I downloaded and lokked at I'd certainly take the HVX of the four small cameras, and that was in a 60i shot, I'd hope the 24p would look even better. Anyway I don't see any reason to think this camera can't perform with in the limitations we've known all along;
It has a fixed lense
and
A 1/3" chip
Everything else looks good to me.
I have had only one experience with the cine alta, while the picture quality was fine, it took forever to change setups, may have been the operator I don't know. What Adam Wilt did say is
"The Varicam in particular yielded gorgeous images, and those who expressed a preference agreed that if they could take home one camera from the test, based on that one scene, it would be the Varicam."
Based on the stills I downloaded and lokked at I'd certainly take the HVX of the four small cameras, and that was in a 60i shot, I'd hope the 24p would look even better. Anyway I don't see any reason to think this camera can't perform with in the limitations we've known all along;
It has a fixed lense
and
A 1/3" chip
Everything else looks good to me.
Gopher_Greene said:
yeah, and I also noticed/read that the camera rendered greens into skin-tones. Can be fixed in post, but that's extra color-correction. Miniscule at best, right? That's probably the response I'll get from saying that--
So, it should also be said that while the HVX produces seriously awesome looking color out of the box ( and oh boy does it. I love color-rich footage), the Canon can be tweaked to achieve color levels that are just as good, theoretically.
It's a theory because we don't have anyone experienced putting the XLH1 to the color test. Maybe Barlow will show some stills of color rich XLH1 grabs after tweaking minus the post color correcting?
Jeskid
Active member
Of course the Cannon was going to be a bit sharper as it's lense system is superior. The real test for the shootout has to be motion as we don't shoot stills in real world application.
Put the other HDV cameras on a bike with the HVX footage we've seen (or at that basketball game with all those moving people in the background) and no resolution will make up for the artificating that will occur with HDV.
I think at this level (sub 10,000) the HXV is the only way to go (unless you shoot near still shots) just because of the codec.
Jes.
Put the other HDV cameras on a bike with the HVX footage we've seen (or at that basketball game with all those moving people in the background) and no resolution will make up for the artificating that will occur with HDV.
I think at this level (sub 10,000) the HXV is the only way to go (unless you shoot near still shots) just because of the codec.
Jes.
mochouinard
Well-known member
Ok I have lookedd more at the Camera Test-All Scenic Shots zip file.
The HVX200 seem fairly focus on the background.
I know he said he just provided those frame for our own analysis. But it make me wonder.
From that shot, compared to the XL H1, it does seem the XL H1 was also focus to the background. Clearly the XL H1 show more res, but also show more noise.
But I see in the HVX200 image in the very black part square compression. It could be Jpeg, or is it DVCPRO HD p2 footage that make those square compression ?
The HVX200 seem fairly focus on the background.
I know he said he just provided those frame for our own analysis. But it make me wonder.
From that shot, compared to the XL H1, it does seem the XL H1 was also focus to the background. Clearly the XL H1 show more res, but also show more noise.
But I see in the HVX200 image in the very black part square compression. It could be Jpeg, or is it DVCPRO HD p2 footage that make those square compression ?
lpcvideo1
Veteran
Also, the HVX still does DVCPRO50, and has much better sound.
I agree with posters who said there is really no new info here (disappointing res results notwithstanding--and even Adam said, "Before you gnash teeth and rend clothing in despair at the camera's poor [res.] showing, wait until we have more data points!").
Go read Barry's "subjective" posts in his intial results thread again, and let's let the dust settle.
I agree with posters who said there is really no new info here (disappointing res results notwithstanding--and even Adam said, "Before you gnash teeth and rend clothing in despair at the camera's poor [res.] showing, wait until we have more data points!").
Go read Barry's "subjective" posts in his intial results thread again, and let's let the dust settle.
Well, I haven't even made a camera decision yet.
While I'm inclined not to do the tests now, I still will because I can.
I'm not biased toward's either brand. Whichever one is right for me is going to be right for me.
But unlike most people, I know the overall spending point will be above 10k for either camera, so the money issue isn't really what I'm seeing.
I just hope all you people wondering about these cameras have some seriously good stories for me to get wrapped up in.
Otherwise, your footage won't mean crap to me or anyone else.
While I'm inclined not to do the tests now, I still will because I can.
I'm not biased toward's either brand. Whichever one is right for me is going to be right for me.
But unlike most people, I know the overall spending point will be above 10k for either camera, so the money issue isn't really what I'm seeing.
I just hope all you people wondering about these cameras have some seriously good stories for me to get wrapped up in.
Otherwise, your footage won't mean crap to me or anyone else.
MattC
Veteran
Why should that let the dust settle? It also depends on what level production you're doing. I agree the HVX has better audio, but I still wouldn't record to it for anything really important.
What bugs me the most about the tests is seeing the images that the Canon produced and then reading this and realizing it wasn't set up AT ALL!!!! I mean, WTF!!??!! I'm not great fan of the camera but jeez guys, at least show me what it could look like when someone, ANYONE, OTHER than Shanon has it....
Matt
What bugs me the most about the tests is seeing the images that the Canon produced and then reading this and realizing it wasn't set up AT ALL!!!! I mean, WTF!!??!! I'm not great fan of the camera but jeez guys, at least show me what it could look like when someone, ANYONE, OTHER than Shanon has it....
Matt
Jeskid
Active member
I'm glad you agree Matt (as you guys are VERY smart on this board). I spend my days compressing footage for the web and from all my experience- Mpeg-2 - doesn't play nice with motion - EVER.
Just turn on your local cable box and watch an explosion (it's the new Hollywood artifacted explosion effect) - comes out pure crap IMHO
Just turn on your local cable box and watch an explosion (it's the new Hollywood artifacted explosion effect) - comes out pure crap IMHO
MattC said:
L M F A O
Yeah seriously though. They couldn't even get a Canon guy to operate the damned thing.
Way I see it, imagine if someone whom KNEW what they were doing had the camera in their hands.
Don't take it as an excuse as to the Canon's performance, but please consider the facts: no one knew how to use it. They did the best they could and that's it.
wabbit
Evil has Ears
Justyn said:
A great example of why all the debate over "my cam is better then your cam" is so insignificant. One of our cameramen ended up having to sleep with a wristbrace after using the XL1s on long shoot days... he cannot stand the balance of the XL cams, his arm literally goes numb from using it. At the same time if he can't use a shoulder mount cam he prefers the pd150/DVX form factor.
With so many differences between these cams, each of us has a reason to prefer one over the other without having to justify it on forums like this. The 4 cam test is great as it gives us another factor to consider, but definately not the only factor.
I don't see the need for this thread to go uber-long. We have some numbers, we know the different formats, formats, etc; it's time to make an individual choice for each of us.
Cheers