Disapointed with JVC HD100-U

B

brsirob

Member
Well, I've read all the forums, but thought that by now JVC would have addressed the issue.
I just bought a HD 100U yesterday 12/9/05; and started learning the menus etc. I was happy to find no problems, untill that is, about an hour after it had been on.

Then... you guessed it one big glowing green dead pixle. I couldn't belive it! Then after another 20 mins, another one turned up and the split screen thing became apparant at all gain settings. Now the first dead pixle had become bigger than the second!

I messed around with the buttons trying to find my way into the service menu, and I found it. I also found an 'advanced menu'; however I did not try to mask the pixles, I want my dealer to see them himself. This sucks! This could be such a great camera.

I think I'll try and return the whole dam thing. Does anyone have any advice? Has JVC resolved this in ANY way? or if I get another, will I just get more spuratic dead pixles?

One would think that for the amount of cash the rig costs they'd get it right!!
RmP :undecided
 
What country are you in brsirob?

Apart from those problems what was your impression of teh camera?
 
That's too bad. I'd return the camera and wait until JVC (hopefully) gets this all sorted out. I like JVC, but they have a habitual habit of shooting themselves in the foot. I don't think masking the pixels will be an issue, but who knows how deep the split screen problem is? Maybe it could be dealt with in a firmware update, or maybe there are hardware issues. At this point, it still isn't clear.
 
I'm in Vancouver. Was I impressed; in several ways yes. Probably as impressed as you are; it looks slick, handles like a TV camera (its heavier than I expected), I'd just as soon have bought the camera with NO mic than the crap it comes with. The lcd screen is useless for shooting handheld, its too far back considering the camera sits on your shoulder. That's okay because the viewfinder is big, and easy to see into, but its resolution is well I don't know what it is, but it ain't great. The menu looks primitive and gitters when its up; thats sort of annoying. I wish the viewfinder eyepice could flip up like on a betacam. Uhm otherwise I'm happy... as happy as can be with a big green dot in my frame and a line down the middle and the prospect of calling the rep and saying I want my money back!!

Barry what do you think; is there any reason why they should deny giving me my money back? I just got it yesterday?
 
brsirob said:
... as happy as can be with a big green dot in my frame and a line down the middle and the prospect of calling the rep and saying I want my money back!!
Click to expand...

LOL!

Thanks, welcome to DVXuser by the way!
 
There's a menu to take care of the dead pixel. Search Tim Dashwood's posts to find out more...he's seen the process with his own eyes.
 
This is a professional camera, so I can't see how or why they would deny a return. Since it seems like the pixel masking process is straightforward, that leaves the "split". The only way I would go forward is if you can "cherry pick" the camera. Open three of them up at the store (or at home), fire them up for an hour or two and see if the split is an issue, and if so, at what gain level--for each camera. Only buy a camera that specs out with no or minimal problems. If that isn't an option, I'd wait until JVC sorts out the problem. They should really be doing a recall on these cams considering the problems. Sales should be suspended until they get this ironed out.


brsirob said:
Barry what do you think; is there any reason why they should deny giving me my money back? I just got it yesterday?
Click to expand...
 
I'd like to know how much this slip up has cost them... probably enough to have given us all 2/3" CCDs first time round :laugh:
 
Now that's compensation I could live with. :) I'm sure this has cost some sales, but it all depends how effectively they deal with the problem. If they're quick to deal with things and forthright with current owners--they should land on their feet.

mmm said:
I'd like to know how much this slip up has cost them... probably enough to have given us all 2/3" CCDs first time round :laugh:
Click to expand...
 
"Hello Mr. Sales Rep, the camera you sold me has bad pixels & I want my money back"
>"Talk to my man at 888 xxx-xxxx, I have to go now"
"But Wait!"
DIAL TONE
So I called his man, who says, "Send me the camera, I'll send you a new one"
all day I try to call back Mr.Sales rep. he avoids the calls.
So, I give in, call FedEx and send away the not yet 24 hour old unit.
Guess I'm getting another, which I hope works perfectly. Despite my bitterness in the earlier communication, I would really like to like the camera, its built solid, and handles just the way a video camera should. I'll let you all know what my new one's like when it comes.
& thank for the welcome Mmm & for your insights Barry. RmP
 
Like all of our cameras, the GY-HD100 has software which compensates for such pixel blemishes.

All CCD cameras can encounter them and it isn't hard to do.

you can email me at kfreed@jvc.com and I'll help.
 
Ken is a great guy. I won't mention his "role" at JVC as that information is purely up to him to release.

It is however, great to know that he's aware of DVXuser. As far as the "forum" mentality goes, Ken would be the JVC equivalent of Jan from Panasonic.

ciao,
 
Finlay, welcome Ken!

By the way, guys guess what... I received today a call from JVC Spain after sending a mail to Mr. Iann Scott asking for some dealer informations, he replyed me next day saying that I would be contacted from JVC in Madrid. Basically, Mr. Miguel Marino from Spain told me that I should buy it on my local official dealer and not on a foreign country. However, he didn't know anything about dead pixels and split screens... they delivered a few cameras and had no complains in Spain.

Anyway, I'm ignoring his advice and placed an order on a non official dealer in UK, it's a Sony official one so I hope it to be trustworthy. This dealer sent me a mail today saying that the problems regarding pixel degradation are now rectified, however, if in the unlikely event that I experience a problem, JVC will rectify any problems free of charge. Also, the self repair option is very rudimentary for users and will not include any technical challenges.

brsirob said:
"Hello Mr. Sales Rep, the camera you sold me has bad pixels & I want my money back"
>"Talk to my man at 888 xxx-xxxx, I have to go now"
"But Wait!"
DIAL TONE
So I called his man, who says, "Send me the camera, I'll send you a new one"
all day I try to call back Mr.Sales rep. he avoids the calls.
So, I give in, call FedEx and send away the not yet 24 hour old unit.
Guess I'm getting another, which I hope works perfectly.RmP
Click to expand...

Brsirob, is that an official dealer?
 
I've been told first hand by one of the JVC's head sales reps that feedback from forums would not effect sales. We'll see...
 
I spent Monday evening at a meeting sponsored by the Las Vegas Videographers Association
during which two reps from JVC gave a detailed presentation of the GY-HD 100. This was
followed by a Tuesday morning hands on, one-on-one session with the camera and the JVC
rep from LA at National Video Tape's Las Vegas office, now also a JVC camera dealer. I was
told by the rep that the split screen 'effect' is the result of two chips married together to
create the 1280x720 imager.

In other words, the split screen is an inherently designed technological compromise in the
creation of this camera. I got the distinct impression from what the rep told me that image
information from each chip is being processed separately. "The only way to process all that
data", he said.

I was able to see the center split at 0db by aiming the camera a white door illuminated only by
spill light from an adjoining room. This allowed viewing a large gray gradient with subtle changes
in value and one had to look hard to see it, but it was there. It became very noticeable at 9db
and 18db.

We were using a large JVC flat screen LCD monitor to view the output from the camera.

During the Monday evening presentation we were told this camera was designed to be used
under "controlled lighting conditions" like one would use in the creation of TV spots, indie features, etc.
 
Not happy

Not happy

Well, this is extremely bad news! I was about to buy at least one HD100.
We were waiting on how the split screen issue panned out. We are now going to wait for the Panasonic HVX200.

I can not believe that JVC engineers let this go. Also, why are some cameras only displaying the split screen at +18? Hopefully they can come up with a software fix to compensate for the different levels. If this is not a software fix, JVC might want to consider stopping production now and fix the issue.

Steve
 
In all fairness, I purposefully put the camera into a stressed condition with the
clipped brightness of the adjoining room occupying the the left 1/3 of the frame
and the flat white door with the gentle falloff, the remaining 2/3. As I said above,
we had to strain to see the center division from a distance of no more than two
feet to the large LCD screen. There was nothing in focus across the frame, so the
camera had no detail to 'lock' on to, not even any color detail -- contemporary
office, everything white or light gray with florescent lighting. It was being forced
to process an image that one would seldom, if ever, encounter.

Footage shot just before the LVVA meeting on Monday evening during magic
hour, just after the sun dipped below the horizon, showed no 'split', even when
aimed at the sky -- also a wide expanse of tonal gradient with very little detail.

The image this camera makes is exceptional. It displayed a very smooth 'filmy'
contrast range. Motion during 30p and 24p frame capture was accurate and
exhibited no breakup or tracking problems when quickly panned.


I usually shoot with Sony's CineAlta, so I am quite aware of the immense process-
ing need to capture, process and output an HD image. It should be noted the JVC
camera is a true 1280x720 image, not a down sampled 960X 702 image as with
the future HVX 200 and current F27H Varicam.

In my mind, this camera has no competition in the HDV format until the JVC GY-HD
7000 2/3" CMOS camera is released next year -- hopefully.

You should also know that I asked the local dealer to give me a price quote for two
GY-HD 100s, as I see this as a serious contender for professional production with
limited budgets or as a second unit 'leave behind' in dangerous situations.

James Burgess
Director/DP/Editor
www.eyemagic.biz
 
Regarding the split screen -- I had a long talk with Dave Walton at JVC about this, and indeed it was confirmed that the issue comes about because there are two parallel processors at work sampling each half of the CCD. What appears to be happening is a slight difference in the black level of the footage, which should (SHOULD) be unnoticeable in 0dB gain.

Now, the thing is, as eyemagic says (btw, I met James, saw his demo reel, he's a very talented shooter!) but the split-screen should only show up in a very stressed shooting environment. It shouldn't be visible under normal operating conditions.

Something to compare it to would be vertical smear. One of the first shots we did with the FX1 was point it at a night scene and when a car headlight entered the shot, there was a huge vertical smear from the top of the frame to the bottom. Looked awful, of course. But that's from using the camera in an uncontrolled circumstance, beyond the camera's abililty to cope. Does it make the FX1 unusable? No, not by any means. But it's something you need to be aware of, and try to control, if you want the best results from your $3,000 video camera.

So it is with the JVC. You want native resolution from a 1280-pixel-wide 1/3" CCD? That means dual processors reading the screen, and that means the potential exists for mismatches between them. The question is: how does that affect your shooting situations? If it's only visible under gain, then I'd say that for my purposes it's not much of an issue -- gain is noisy on the camera and I'd avoid it anyway; the higher-chance-of-visibility of the split-screen is just one more reason to avoid gain.

If you're seeing the split-screen under normal shooting conditions, at 0db gain, then that's a defect, and JVC has already said "return the camera to us and we'll replace it or fix it" etc.

I guess the bottom line is: if you plan on using this camera in dark, uncontrolled lighting situations with high levels of gain, and you cannot fathom putting up with the split-screen effect, then this isn't the camera for you. Just like if you were going to be shooting a lot of dark scenes with bright lights in it, the FX1 would be the wrong choice for that type of shooting.
 
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