Dirty frames in 24P Advance, Please HELP!!!

J

jangej03

Member
Hi,

I am shooting a feature lenght. Using scene file F6 with default settings mostly.Last night I noticed that every 5th frame in the footage is a dirty frame, i.e. mixture of two surrounding frames. The effect is pixelation when ever there is camera or character movement.

Curiosly this DOES not happen when I playback in DVRack. It happens every where else. Priemere Pro, WinAmp etc.

Is this something expected? If not what is the problem? And how to correct it?
I have put in lot of effort and hard work into the movie. I don't want this to ruin my movie :-(

Where can I upload the frames to show what I am talking about?
 
you need to extract the original 24p frames from the 60i stream using the 24pa pulldown.. 2:3:3:2 . the dvx records its 24p into a 60i stream which allows you to use regular NTSC equipment to transfer it to your NLE and editing if you desire instead of expensive true 24p capable equipment.. if you want to work with the true 24p in your NLE(which allows for 24p dvds and 24p filmout and such) , using 24pa you can extract the original 24 frames to use in a true 24p timeline without recompression in the DV realm.. very rudimentary to working with 24p .. you should read this regarding 24pa and 24pn:

http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html#24pRecording
 
Thanks for the reply. I had already read Adam Wilt's entire site before I started filming but somehow I had forgotten about it. Anyway, thanks for reminding. Now the question is what is the best way to extract 24p from this footage that I already have. Any pointers on that. Can Primere Pro do that?
 
version 1.5 or 1.5.1 can , there are project presets clearly named "panasonic 24p" which were made just for the DVX100.

PPRO 1.0 cannot. if thats the version you have .. it can EDIT 24p .. but 1.0 just cant exctract it from 60i to edit it.. so you have to do it in another program and then bring it in already as true 24p. you can use AE or whatever .. or a great little program called "dvfilmmaker"

which you can get here: http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/index.htm
 
You are viewing the fields created to get the 24P in 60i, is shouldn't be a problem in normal playback, I think you're freezing a frame... right ?

Ulisses
 
Ok, so here is the lowdown. If you play back 2:3:3:2 pulldown from your DV deck on to your TV you MAY notice some pixelation, jagged edges and may be occasional dirty frame.

If you play back the same .avi file on your computer you WILL surely notice the artifacts. Specially whenever there is movement. If you view frame by frame you will see that every fifth frame is dirty frame. Its like this:

d-g-g-g-g-d-g-g-g-g-d... (g=good , d=dirty)

2:3 pull down is even worse. It has TWO dirty frames in every five frames. Like this:

d-g-d-g-g-d-g-d-g-g-d..

I used DVFilm Maker to extract true 24P (23.97) from my 2:3:3:2 pull down. It plays perfect without any dirty frames at all. Pulled it into Premiere Pro v7 timeline and exported it to NTSC 27.97 .avi file. It plays fine with no dirty frames.

So I did a test. I put my original .avi with 2:3:3:2 pulldown , 24P output of DVFilm Maker and the exported NTSC 27.97 .avi file all into Premiere Pro timeline and exported to tape. Played it back on my TV from my Deck and guess what ? All three play the same. WITHOUT any dirty frames at all.

Premiere Pro replaces the dirty frames with good frames. I verified by counting the frames on 29.97 avi.
 
These aren't dirty frames, they're interlaced. This is what you want for standard video 29.97
Yes, you do want to remove them if you want to edit a pure 24fps timeline.
When played back to tape it shoudl be adding back in these interlaced froms since it's running at 29.97
(I assume you meant 29.97 and not 27.97)
 
Probably, you are right. But these frames are composed of interlaced fields from two different frames so they looked jagged and dirty which is very noticable when you play .avi on computer.
 
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