Drew Ott
Wish I were banned.
But there's nothing to understand when they aren't emailing you back.
Have you called yet?
Dilema: Bride/Groom not giving me an answer on wedding that I filmed for them
- Thread starter PhilipD
- Start date
But there's nothing to understand when they aren't emailing you back.
Have you called yet?
Great Idea CeeJay thanks for that, I will definitly do this for the ones already booked and then new customers I will notify them that the full balance is due 2 weeks before the wedding.
The Bride was talking to me on Facebook (Wasn't replying to emails and I noted her online)
So I did it that way.
I will definitly hold onto them, just let them know that they may be gone in a year.
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
Ditto. This is ideal, but you may need to build up a reputation before you have clients that agree to be fully paid well in advance of receiving a video... otherwise some % down and COD of the final product.
No deposit, no date... "deposit should be made as far in advance as possible to secure your date". If you're shooting weddings cheaply... 50% deposit for sure with no refund obligation for any reason they may provide. (wedding is off, wedding date changed, etc). If a wedding date changes and you can still shoot it... no sweat. Be cool about it and accept the new date and continue the contract as agreed.
If you want to do a trailer, fine. I used to shoot some video for deferred payment and even for teasers I had made a nice little "bug" to put in the frame... it was bright spinning logo that said "UNPAID DEMO". Otherwise look to the graphics world where they put 50% dissolve "water marks" all over unpaid art samples. Still, these are both band-aids since the work is done at that point.
I couldn't agree more with the wedding photos vs. video thing... I've accepted a few wedding videos that were last minute decisions in lieu of an over-extended budget. Why find out once the work is completed that they couldn't really afford it, or didn't have much attachment to the idea, and are willing to abandon it unless they feel truly blown away?
Thanks for the advice
That last part too, it makes you think a little about their mindset I 2nd the watermark idea although I do it slightly different. When I send a client a working copy I
1) always send low-res ( and let them know this)
2) I always burn in Timecode. This is for two reasons - a) no ones going to pirate this version b) it gives the client and me exact reference.
1) always send low-res ( and let them know this)
2) I always burn in Timecode. This is for two reasons - a) no ones going to pirate this version b) it gives the client and me exact reference.
Here's More Emails this past week!
(I emailed saying the last possible date Again was the 25th August as I am leaving for New Zealand)
His Response
Hi Phillip,
I've tried calling you today but Sorry we've had no time over the last week to express any changes for our wedding video. As you're leaving for a quite a while the only thing I can suggest is that if you could mail the unedited DVD to us I'll see if I can arrange for some one to edit it for us.
Again it's not that the quality is poor it just needs time editing and I'll see if this can be done locally.
If this is ok with you our address is
MY RESPONSE - Was to help him by putting onto HDD and editing abroad (Good Deed)
HIS RESPONSE
Hi Phillip,
I'm currently in London and not due to get home until Thursday night(via Scotland) I ready don't want you worry about anything while you are away and that's why I thought it would be easier for you to just pop it on a DVD.
Kindest regards
Hi ***,
It's no problem to edit, I can send you the rough edit on dvd and edit while I'm away if I get a hard drive. Gives me something to do for a week while I find a job because I know like australia it took me 6 weeks.
It's just the money problem really as I won't be able to cash cheques. So would either be paypal or bank transfer.
Don't want you to spend more hiring someone
That would be a great help and pay pal would be not problem.
I'll speak to **** later and thanks for your cooperation.
Kind Regards
******
Hi ***,
Sorry but I can't afford to wait any longer to be paid. Alot of people on the
video forums have told me that I should set a deadline to be paid. Literally I cannot
get payment beyond Wednesday 1st September (which allows for 5 days processing through
paypal) after that payment I can edit for about another 5 weeks if I don't have a job.
Other than that I would have to say bye.
Phillip,
I'm not comfortable send you the money until our wedding video is finished. Could you complete what you have and add the music we requested, send the link for us to view. Once we have the completed DVD we will then send the funds.
Please reply to this email address only.
Kindest regards
****
Hi Rob,
I only edit as a courtesy. You've given me no editing instructions and it's past any date I can do anything.
I am guessing we will have to go our seperate ways and I will have to lose the money as I can't afford to be messed around anymore.
Phillip,
First of all I was under the impression that you were going to send a copy of the wedding to me in an mp4 format so I could let you know the times exactly for editing. I'm now really annoyed at your unprofessional attitude and the cavalier way you've dealt with my wedding.
I'm going to give you two options in which to resolve this immediately:
1, you ignore the email in which I will present you with a country court summons that if you do not attend you will A, default B, will lead to you receiving a county court judgment which will affect you credit for 6 years.
2. You send the unedited copy of the wedding for a reduced rate.
3. Complete our wedding video to an agreed standard and after viewing I will arrange the rest of the money to be forwarded in 24 hours.
This has been the worst part of our wedding that we would like to put behind us as soon as possible. If you had forewarned us that you had a short time scale after the wedding we could have had the option to go else where.
I have taken legal advise of my rights and await your response.
Kindest regards
****
(I emailed saying the last possible date Again was the 25th August as I am leaving for New Zealand)
His Response
Hi Phillip,
I've tried calling you today but Sorry we've had no time over the last week to express any changes for our wedding video. As you're leaving for a quite a while the only thing I can suggest is that if you could mail the unedited DVD to us I'll see if I can arrange for some one to edit it for us.
Again it's not that the quality is poor it just needs time editing and I'll see if this can be done locally.
If this is ok with you our address is
MY RESPONSE - Was to help him by putting onto HDD and editing abroad (Good Deed)
HIS RESPONSE
Hi Phillip,
I'm currently in London and not due to get home until Thursday night(via Scotland) I ready don't want you worry about anything while you are away and that's why I thought it would be easier for you to just pop it on a DVD.
Kindest regards
Hi ***,
It's no problem to edit, I can send you the rough edit on dvd and edit while I'm away if I get a hard drive. Gives me something to do for a week while I find a job because I know like australia it took me 6 weeks.
It's just the money problem really as I won't be able to cash cheques. So would either be paypal or bank transfer.
Don't want you to spend more hiring someone
That would be a great help and pay pal would be not problem.
I'll speak to **** later and thanks for your cooperation.
Kind Regards
******
Hi ***,
Sorry but I can't afford to wait any longer to be paid. Alot of people on the
video forums have told me that I should set a deadline to be paid. Literally I cannot
get payment beyond Wednesday 1st September (which allows for 5 days processing through
paypal) after that payment I can edit for about another 5 weeks if I don't have a job.
Other than that I would have to say bye.
Phillip,
I'm not comfortable send you the money until our wedding video is finished. Could you complete what you have and add the music we requested, send the link for us to view. Once we have the completed DVD we will then send the funds.
Please reply to this email address only.
Kindest regards
****
Hi Rob,
I only edit as a courtesy. You've given me no editing instructions and it's past any date I can do anything.
I am guessing we will have to go our seperate ways and I will have to lose the money as I can't afford to be messed around anymore.
Phillip,
First of all I was under the impression that you were going to send a copy of the wedding to me in an mp4 format so I could let you know the times exactly for editing. I'm now really annoyed at your unprofessional attitude and the cavalier way you've dealt with my wedding.
I'm going to give you two options in which to resolve this immediately:
1, you ignore the email in which I will present you with a country court summons that if you do not attend you will A, default B, will lead to you receiving a county court judgment which will affect you credit for 6 years.
2. You send the unedited copy of the wedding for a reduced rate.
3. Complete our wedding video to an agreed standard and after viewing I will arrange the rest of the money to be forwarded in 24 hours.
This has been the worst part of our wedding that we would like to put behind us as soon as possible. If you had forewarned us that you had a short time scale after the wedding we could have had the option to go else where.
I have taken legal advise of my rights and await your response.
Kindest regards
****
Colonel Panic
Well-known member
"I'm going to give you two options.....
1...
2...
3..."
Wow. What an idiot this guy is.
If there is no contract, there is no legal recourse for either party (aside from small claims "he said/she said").
Cut your losses. Lesson learned.
1...
2...
3..."
Wow. What an idiot this guy is.
If there is no contract, there is no legal recourse for either party (aside from small claims "he said/she said").
Cut your losses. Lesson learned.
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
Dude... EXACTLY... take the reduced payment for unedited footage. Don't make this the time that you "need your proper respect"... don't be a wimp, but BE professional.
"I'm sorry that we are not in agreement on the value of the work performed and services provided. I've held up my end of our initial agreement and I'm only requesting that you do the same. I understand your concerns, and still, in light of our situation, prefer that you be happy with the resolution of our business relationship. As such, I think it is in both of our best interests that I provide you with all of the footage, in it's current state, for $____. You may use the footage as you wish, including but not limited to, seeking an alternate editor to complete the video to your satisfaction. I will provide all content when the amount of $____ is paid."
Make your point... be professional... do NOT hand over any footage to a jerk based on legal threats. That's ridiculous. That would be the easiest court case ever.
Do NOT get personal with the guy... and DO NOT type responses in anger. If the guy is remotely serious about a legal situation (which I strongly doubt he really is)... the first thing I'd do is counter-sue for your time.
It's cut and dried. If the video quality is reasonable and you're trying to get them what they agreed on... then what's his case?
"Yes your honor... I held up my end of our agreement and am only trying to complete our business transaction, but the prosecution refuses to pay... and now he's suing me for performing this service, which he has stated is satisfactory [hands bailiff printed emails] because I expect to be paid for services rendered."
Jeez... you don't need Matlock for that one.
ZazaCast
Major Contributor
Excellent advice! Always take the high-ground and stay professional & polite. We have to choose our battles wisely in business.... word-of-mouth is very powerful.
Dick Campbell
Veteran
Yeah, you need to change your business model.
1. Written signed contract.
My model - $100 to hold the date, refundable up to 90 days, balance due at the rehearsal. The client sees my work and what I will produce, so they know what to expect. Signed contract. They get three copies mailed to them after post, and the only time I make changes is if I make an egregious error (like misspeliing the bride's name - never done that knock on wood).
A colleague does it differently. He does not take payment until the DVD is finished. The couple comes to his studio to view the work, if they are happy they pay and leave with the DVD.
Just never give out your work until you have to money. And a written contract will not guarantee payment either.
1. Written signed contract.
My model - $100 to hold the date, refundable up to 90 days, balance due at the rehearsal. The client sees my work and what I will produce, so they know what to expect. Signed contract. They get three copies mailed to them after post, and the only time I make changes is if I make an egregious error (like misspeliing the bride's name - never done that knock on wood).
A colleague does it differently. He does not take payment until the DVD is finished. The couple comes to his studio to view the work, if they are happy they pay and leave with the DVD.
Just never give out your work until you have to money. And a written contract will not guarantee payment either.
Thanks Matt So much!
I have copied that Paragraph and I think it sounds better than a reply that was brewing inside of me.
My Initial response I was thinking was "Just let me know the date to show up at court"
I actually knew he was going to be hard work when he was getting serious about me not filming him while he was getting out the car...
I will upload the Video once I've rendered a 512KB version of the 256KB version.
So yes I think I should listen to you matt
They had £550 left to pay after the £200 Deposit, so how much would be good to discount by?
£100?
And the "Country Court Judgment" I just think they've been off with me from the beginning.
Yes definitly...I can't understand how the groom went from just saying "The Quality if fine, you can just send the Raw footage and we will pay them to edit it" and they were willing to pay the full price from what I presumed as they didn't mention a discount and I was being helpfull saying don't worry, I'll edit as it would cost you more to pay someone else.
I never thought about the contract as much because of the payment later from seeing the video. But I can see that it may have some advantages.
Ask for half since you've done half the work (the shooting) and then you'll send unedited footage. Otherwise walk away and eat the loss.
I would just dictate very clearly what your time is worth. You did X amount of work with the shooting that's worth X amount, and the editing is worth X amount. You are owed for the amount of time and resources spent. X amount is half the price just for the raw footage and they are free to take it wherever they want to have it done themselves. If they're not interested then you can walk away and they have no wedding video.
Also, something you DON'T want to do is say the people on the video forum told you to do X. Keep your contact with clients professional. Don't treat emails like a loose conversation, keep your language more formal and neutral. If you come across as professional in your contact people will treat you that way. In future never use facebook for contact, keep it strictly email/phone/in person. MattinSTL's example is a perfect model to follow on how to address clients, especially in this situation.
And don't mention your personal finances when dealing with clients. If they know you really need this money or can only live another six weeks without a job you have given them too much information and if they're dishonest they'll try and squeeze you by asking for discounts. Generally the smaller clients are the worst and the ones who request X amount of changes and revisions. The more you do those kinds of gigs the better you are setting rules up front so they don't drive you crazy with this kind of behavior.
I would just dictate very clearly what your time is worth. You did X amount of work with the shooting that's worth X amount, and the editing is worth X amount. You are owed for the amount of time and resources spent. X amount is half the price just for the raw footage and they are free to take it wherever they want to have it done themselves. If they're not interested then you can walk away and they have no wedding video.
Also, something you DON'T want to do is say the people on the video forum told you to do X. Keep your contact with clients professional. Don't treat emails like a loose conversation, keep your language more formal and neutral. If you come across as professional in your contact people will treat you that way. In future never use facebook for contact, keep it strictly email/phone/in person. MattinSTL's example is a perfect model to follow on how to address clients, especially in this situation.
And don't mention your personal finances when dealing with clients. If they know you really need this money or can only live another six weeks without a job you have given them too much information and if they're dishonest they'll try and squeeze you by asking for discounts. Generally the smaller clients are the worst and the ones who request X amount of changes and revisions. The more you do those kinds of gigs the better you are setting rules up front so they don't drive you crazy with this kind of behavior.
GRENCH
Well-known member
I believe you truly need to take notice to the fact that the leverage is leaning in your favor.
The reason I say this is because 1. They paid you a deposit and 2. Because of the fact that this video is 1 of a kind. You are the sole possessor of their 1 of a kind wedding video.
It is obvious that they are saying they don't like what they saw on the low quality online version of the video. Now whether or not it is because of just the quality or if it's because of the edit, or even both needs to be clarified.
(Now that I think about it I do remember reading that they did want changes done to the edit.)
Anyway after this you should realize that maybe you need to explain by phone or email that thee web version is only for review purposes. Then explain to them that the actual full res version that you possess is far superior in quality and if they are interested in seeing it in person to meet with you and discuss any editing changes they desire.
Also tell them that you have taken down the low res web edit.
Explanation:
The sole purpose of doing what I stated above is to get a reaction from them. Their reaction should tell you where you stand or at least open the lines of communication between you both.
To be perfectly honest it could be as simple as them coming back from their honey moon broke and seeing this low res version made them say the hell with paying good money for a bad product. At that point priorities come 1st (mortgage, car note, insurance etc.) with most people. Maybe they feel like the video isn't so important anymore due a current financial crunch and are too proud to tell you. It happens.
Please keep in mind that most people equate bad quality to a bad product. The technical stuff means nothing to them only the image that they see.
I hope this helps. If not good luck anyway.
Btw, also keep in mind that there are those type of clients who will mislead you into thinking they hate the video in hopes that you will turn over the final cut (like you were about to do earlier in this thread) to them and waive the final fee that they owe you. This is something people do all the time. I'm not saying this is the case. I am just saying that these type of clients do exist.
The reason I say this is because 1. They paid you a deposit and 2. Because of the fact that this video is 1 of a kind. You are the sole possessor of their 1 of a kind wedding video.
It is obvious that they are saying they don't like what they saw on the low quality online version of the video. Now whether or not it is because of just the quality or if it's because of the edit, or even both needs to be clarified.
(Now that I think about it I do remember reading that they did want changes done to the edit.)
Anyway after this you should realize that maybe you need to explain by phone or email that thee web version is only for review purposes. Then explain to them that the actual full res version that you possess is far superior in quality and if they are interested in seeing it in person to meet with you and discuss any editing changes they desire.
Also tell them that you have taken down the low res web edit.
Explanation:
The sole purpose of doing what I stated above is to get a reaction from them. Their reaction should tell you where you stand or at least open the lines of communication between you both.
To be perfectly honest it could be as simple as them coming back from their honey moon broke and seeing this low res version made them say the hell with paying good money for a bad product. At that point priorities come 1st (mortgage, car note, insurance etc.) with most people. Maybe they feel like the video isn't so important anymore due a current financial crunch and are too proud to tell you. It happens.
Please keep in mind that most people equate bad quality to a bad product. The technical stuff means nothing to them only the image that they see.
I hope this helps. If not good luck anyway.
Btw, also keep in mind that there are those type of clients who will mislead you into thinking they hate the video in hopes that you will turn over the final cut (like you were about to do earlier in this thread) to them and waive the final fee that they owe you. This is something people do all the time. I'm not saying this is the case. I am just saying that these type of clients do exist.
Hi Grench,
I said to them in other emails about being broke, as I am happy to wait for a year if need be but they didn't mention that at all.
Plus I told them about the Quality issue. They said they'd get back to me 1 month ago and still haven't made the changes. And now he wants an MP4 to go through the editing when they already had the footage.
Thanks for the advice and the good luck
Regarding the HoneymoonAt first I did appreciate this but it's been a while since then