Digital Bolex weeks away

resonance_image said:
Did he machine a C-Mount to M4/3?
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Nothing quite so elegant.:cool: He removed the C-mount and suspended it in front of the optical block.

Michael Ryan Gibson I went to The Home Depot and bought some rubber grommets, one 1/4 - 20 rod (which I cut to size), and a couple of wing nuts... The rubber grommet creates a point of contact between the Speed booster, and the optical block. It also blocks out light leaks. Mounting has to be VERY precise! I can hit infinity focus spot on! (Don't ask me the size of the grommet, sorry)
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Kholi said:
It seems like it's a matter of not using filmconvert hahaha. That last video proves that the camera's base color's outrageous. I'll give it that over most digital cameras right now, especially anything Canon.
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Organic is pretty overused but it has that look, the kind that keeps me shooting with BM for a lot of stuff despite it's inherent deficiencies as a camera system.
I think it's great that cameras like the DB and BM are providing IQ of this quality with none of the experience/history of the "majors".

For instance, I haven't seen a thing from the new GH4 that has that IQ...not detail but quality, the kind that's really suited for rich storytelling.
I look forward to seeing some really produced work with the DB with that in mind.

FWIW, the BMPCC with the .58 Metabones and my old set of AIS primes shooting ProRes is becoming my favorite little system.
 
jimagine said:
Organic is pretty overused but it has that look, the kind that keeps me shooting with BM for a lot of stuff despite it's inherent deficiencies as a camera system.
I think it's great that cameras like the DB and BM are providing IQ of this quality with none of the experience/history of the "majors".

For instance, I haven't seen a thing from the new GH4 that has that IQ...not detail but quality, the kind that's really suited for rich storytelling.
I look forward to seeing some really produced work with the DB with that in mind.

FWIW, the BMPCC with the .58 Metabones and my old set of AIS primes shooting ProRes is becoming my favorite little system.
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I'd agree that the GH4 stuff shown so far doesn't compare to either the Black Magic or DBolex...BUT, to my knowledge no one has shot 10 bit 4:2:2 HD using the HDMI output yet as the HDMI has been disabled on the test units.
 
combatentropy said:
Sensors do not have roll-off. Sensors do not have roll-off. Sensors do not have roll-off.* (Sorry, this is not aimed at you but at the many times I've heard this.)

Sensors capture light in an utterly linear way, with a hard clip at max fill. Any pleasant roll-off you've ever seen is the result of a two-step process: (1) underexposing by a few stops, to protect the highlights, and then (2) raising the mids in post without affecting the highlights. Hence, a curve.

As for the weird colors, I agree with you, but I'm seeing it as: whenever there's a strong red shade, it's like a radioactive red. But I'm not too worried because (1) I saw the absolute exact same thing in early Ikonoskop footage, which used a sensor of the same pedigree, and it disappeared from later footage, either from further sensor calibration by Ikonoskop or better grading from the camerafolk. I'm also not worried because (2) hello, it's just color, which you can fiddle with to your heart's content in post.

(* Okay, a few sensors have roll-off, but it's not the Alexa or F3 or any of the ones where you've seen nice roll-off. But there are a few industrial and scientific cameras with a logarithmic curve done before it reaches the ADC. And the CMOSIS chip, used in the Apertus and and the BlackMagic 4K camera, has a piecewise linear mode, which basically is a jagged roll-off. But most sensors in their normal modes are completely linear.)
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Using the Alexa a few times, plus grading the footage extensively, I can attest to the camera indeed providing smooth highlight roll-off. It's practically one of the camera's most touted features and has proven so in numerous examples (the latest being one of Shane's where he pits the C500 against damn near everything, including the Alexa and 35mm Kodak film). I don't ever remember the F3 having a smooth roll off though.

Lastly though, yes you can fix bad color from a RAW source (or any solid digital source for that matter), but the less you need to do for color CORRECTION lends more time to work creatively toward color grading. I'm not sure I'd be so enthusiastic to dump a -magenta setup with every DBolex grade coming down the pipeline, really.
 
and still comatentropy was right: sensors don't have rolloff, they are completely linear (they tell you how many free electrons were generated by the photons hitting the photodiode)

what you're seeing is the result of applying a very specific near-log curve over the original linear data; that curve is tweaked so that it creates the highlight rolloff
 
Alexa does a few special things that no other manufacturer has done as far as I know, I highly suspect that similarly to compression/limiters used in "audio" to prevent clipping and excessive peaking that ARRI has done the same with the upper portion of the highlights. That is, no matter how much light you impose on the photosites of the sensor they can limit the signal and curve it to produce those soft, gentle and gracious looking highlights that we experience with film. The other thing ARRI was rumoured to doing was using some 1/4 or 1/8 strength filter on the sensor similar to the effect of a soft fx filter, or something to that nature. (the exact filter escapes my memory at this time).
 
starcentral said:
The other thing ARRI was rumoured to doing was using some 1/4 or 1/8 strength filter on the sensor similar to the effect of a soft fx filter, or something to that nature. (the exact filter escapes my memory at this time).
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Doesn't the Alexa have something like an internal 1/4 low contrast filter?
 
starcentral said:
Alexa does a few special things that no other manufacturer has done as far as I know, I highly suspect that similarly to compression/limiters used in "audio" to prevent clipping and excessive peaking that ARRI has done the same with the upper portion of the highlights. That is, no matter how much light you impose on the photosites of the sensor they can limit the signal and curve it to produce those soft, gentle and gracious looking highlights that we experience with film. The other thing ARRI was rumoured to doing was using some 1/4 or 1/8 strength filter on the sensor similar to the effect of a soft fx filter, or something to that nature. (the exact filter escapes my memory at this time).
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They also have an almost 'double exposure' system, where half the photosites are at something like ISO 200 vs the others at 800 that let it not clip as quickly, and then the A/D converter combines it into one image. It's part of the reason why I doubt, outside of a brilliant off sensor software solution, we'll ever really get 16+ stops of dynamic range in the future.
 
It's not half the photosites: all photosites are exposed, at the same time, at two very different ISO values, then the signal is combined (that is, it has a dual ADC channel; the sensor in the original BMC and the pocket uses the same "trick").

I have no doubt we will have 30+ stops of DR in the future. It is a distant future, though. Historically, the rate of improvement seems to be of around 3 stops per decade: http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Ratings/Landscape
 
pulpfiction007 said:
Crazy...wonder if it will be S35, or if it will be S16 with some internal options along with the raw
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Joe said the next camera would be a completely different camera for a different market. The add on processor module option for uncompressed SDI out for the D16 is still on the near future road map as are other plans. The new camera is not a replacement. Whether it will be down market or up market from the D16 remains to be seen, but my bet is on an up market raw S35, probably 4k DCI compliant digital cinema camera. Not UHD and like the D16, probably not a compressed format video camera though it may shoot compressed raw. Philosophically Joe and Elle are both deeply rooted in the indie feature, documentary, and creative art film making community. But nothing has been revealed about it yet so I'm just speculating.
 
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For documentary work RAW or compressed RAW are simply not practical for many reasons. Like storage, transcoding in the field just to name a couple. That is precisely why C300 is still renting for a top coin. With 12stops DR and very efficient and easy to work codec, which is broadcast ready, it simply rocks. Now new Arri Amira will also be a strong rental, along with new Varicam. If the project has enough money for man power, renting Epic or Scarlet is another option. I think having just RAW is not always practical and I don't see them any headways if such camera is RAW only.
 
mico said:
Looks like someone is going to announce a new camera on the 7th:

http://www.digitalbolex.com/upcoming-events/
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The way the post is worded, I'm not sure that Digital Bolex is announcing a new camera. It could be one of their partners. Wouldn't they have their own booth to do something lke this? Are they going to debut a new camera on the 7th in another vendor's booth? I guess, they could do a press release on the 7th and show the new Cam at their party. Seems a bit illogical.

I'm still watching DB closely for their new lenses, new CF Card auto-dump feature, SDI output maybe?

Does Kodak even make a 35mm sensor? Would Digital Bolex go CMOS after all of their recent marketing of CCD?
 
snowblindfilm said:
For documentary work RAW or compressed RAW are simply not practical for many reasons. Like storage, transcoding in the field just to name a couple. That is precisely why C300 is still renting for a top coin. With 12stops DR and very efficient and easy to work codec, which is broadcast ready, it simply rocks. Now new Arri Amira will also be a strong rental, along with new Varicam. If the project has enough money for man power, renting Epic or Scarlet is another option. I think having just RAW is not always practical and I don't see them any headways if such camera is RAW only.
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RAW is a very simple workflow to me and the D16 is far handier with minimal external support compared to Canon C series, not to mention the price difference compared to a C300 which is a very good 8 bit video camera.
Storage is not an issue if one shoots with film style discipline instead of spray and pray. You still think of this as compared to a video camera vs a 16mm film camera. Others have a different view. Kurt Lnacaster teaches documentary journalism. Read his take on the D16 for documentary work. His school bought 6 of them.

http://kurtlancaster.com/11/03/2014...ith-the-digital-bolex-in-pedras-mesa-roundup/

 
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Razz16mm said:
RAW is a very simple workflow to me and the D16 is far handier with minimal external support compared to Canon C series, not to mention the price difference compared to a C300 which is a very good 8 bit video camera.
Storage is not an issue if one shoots with film style discipline instead of spray and pray. You still think of this as compared to a video camera vs a 16mm film camera. Others have a different view. Kurt Lnacaster teaches documentary journalism. Read his take on the D16 for documentary work. His school bought 6 of them.

http://kurtlancaster.com/11/03/2014...ith-the-digital-bolex-in-pedras-mesa-roundup/

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For documentary work, I'd much prefer a C series to any of the Raw cameras, because:
A. You have far more storage on board.
B. You can review clips that many times can't be re-shot.
C. You get exposure tools on board with a small footprint.
D. The C series are far better in situations where it is impractical to light. All of the raw cameras need lots of light badly.
E. The C series battery is extremely long life and a spare is cheap and light.
F. For situations that call for it, the new AF system is very good on the C series.

I also disagree you need more external support with a C series. It's quite the opposite...the D Bolex has no Viewfinder, (add that on) it has no monitor (add that on) No back up battery power, (add that on) And unless you trust everything you shoot is completely spot on...you'll need a way to back up/review footage. The C series has dual record and back up on board.
 
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