philiplipetz
Veteran
So they preserved the ability of cinema debayering programs, like Resolve, to carry embedded synchronized audio into the NLE? Sorry, I misunderstood what you said.
Digital Bolex music video
- Thread starter Razz16mm
- Start date
So they preserved the ability of cinema debayering programs, like Resolve, to carry embedded synchronized audio into the NLE? Sorry, I misunderstood what you said.
No, Resolve preserves the time code in the DNG frames so the audio and video files are time code synchronized before encoding to video. If you process the DNG files to JPEGS or TIFFs first, the time code is lost and must be re synced to the correct frame rate and time base using the audio file time base as master reference in your NLE.
philiplipetz
Veteran
I think we are in a semantic battle where we are saying the samething but it seems to be coming across differently to you. In any case this is too much. You really are not helping DB sell their cameras. It is beginning to remind me of a cult. Too many camera cults going on here. DB has enough problems with everyone frozen until NAB 2014, and the TOTAL lack of well graded samples from a production camera. I really hope the company can prosper, but it will never happen if this becomes a hipster true believer only product. And that looks like what is happening.
Hey if you don't like the grade, there is a 10 second DNG raw sample you can download and grade to suit yourself, as well as a full download of the audio file. You won't learn much about this or any cinema DNG camera looking at Vimeo videos.
In video terms I think of imbedded audio as part of a single encoded file, like an AVC video. A cinema DNG recording is a folder of independent files of different types that conform to defined protocols. There is a separate file for each raw frame of video, an audio file, and sidecar metadata files.
There are some of us that have been experimenting with raw motion work flows for several years at least from a variety of cameras: Reds, Ikonoskop, BMC, and now the D16.
Robert Ruffo
Well-known member
1 - Used Red One Mx
2 - New Scarlet
No compression is not really better than basically lossless (or almost) compression that is still fully RAW, as is available on these very inexpensive RAW cameras, that you can bring to any set and no one will bat an eyelash
Love the Reds and a used R1 is a very reasonable choice for some. Scarlets are pretty much out of budget range for many of us if we are not established professionals. Certainly out of my range for a creative hobby cam, though I would dearly love to own one. A D16 needs nothing but a lens and a charge to shoot as it comes out of the box for $3300.00 Add a decent EVF and a few accessories and you are still in Canon C100 territory for a nicely outfitted package, not including lenses. ( I have 16mm glass).
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bitcrusher
Well-known member
I like to see quick and dirty camera demos as it lets you see the limitations of the camera. The first thing I always do is turn off the sound its a distraction when you are pixel peeping. The background in this video is flat and dark but it lets you see how much noise is in the shadows. A properly produced camera demo will always look awesome. Its not about the camera but how much time and lighting you have.
This camera is not going to be for everyone. Its a Kodak CCD that has a specific look. I would not compare this cam to a RED or Scarlet a better comparison is to the Ikonoskop A-Cam dll. The Ikonoskop also had a problem with a magenta hue until they did a firmware update.
Yes this is going to be a vibey cam due in-part to the kodak look + all the cheap vintage cine glass. Its a niche product.
offtopic/
As someone who lived in San Francisco from the late 90's here is the best description I have read about hipsters.
/offtopic
This camera is not going to be for everyone. Its a Kodak CCD that has a specific look. I would not compare this cam to a RED or Scarlet a better comparison is to the Ikonoskop A-Cam dll. The Ikonoskop also had a problem with a magenta hue until they did a firmware update.
Yes this is going to be a vibey cam due in-part to the kodak look + all the cheap vintage cine glass. Its a niche product.
offtopic/
As someone who lived in San Francisco from the late 90's here is the best description I have read about hipsters.
/offtopic
It doesn't have to show a magenta cast. I think most of it in this case is still due to mixed color temp lighting and not reacting well to kinos. Perhaps it is just because it looks different than Sony green cast.
Better, but still a bit magenta to me.
Tungsten balanced Kinos key on the right side (red) + daylight balanced LED kicker on the left side (blue) red+blue gives a bit of magenta cast to the light when white balance is between the two. It can be cancelled with some green shift, but the light is the light.
I was working with a default DNG profile in the raw processor, not ideal for the camera as it seems to be optimized for the color response of a typical CMOS sensor which is hotter in the reds weaker in the blues. The shadows had a distinct blue cast.
philiplipetz
Veteran
But some of us are afraid that it is not a simple lighting issue since Ikonoskop with the same Kodak sensor family said the same thing about their magenta cast and it turned out to require new firmware that came only long after delivery of first cameras, almost years if I remember right.
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Sure. If you put magenta light on someone it's going to look magenta when you record it. It would be nice to see some examples with more pleasing lighting. Like I said a little bit cool blue, or a little bit warm yellow, it looks fine. A little bit purple is just kinda bleh. Shoot some golden hour footage or something. That always looks nice.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
I would say the test would be a proper quartz halogen light. That is a known quantity.
+1 :thumbsup:
Daylight color balance preset
Tungsten balance preset as factory calibrated.
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snowblindfilm
Carbonite Member
DB has to start delivering some quality samples. Maybe they really don't care about sales, since it doesn't sound like they will be delivering more then a few hundred units at the end, but for now most of the stuff posted either looked average or flat out really bad. To me the proof is in the footage, and no matter how hard they try to hype the product, the footage is not backing up the hype. If they are trying to showcase the audio, would it be so much to aski to have someone who actually can sing? Also lighting the scene is horrible, most of quick setup TV interviews are better then this.
I wish them all the best, these are my thoughts about the marketing of the product.
I wish them all the best, these are my thoughts about the marketing of the product.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
Based on these chips (and the compression they went through to make it to my screen, so take this with a grain of salt), I would say that the Tungsten balance setting is showing a bit magenta.Daylight color balance presetas factory calibrated.
Tungsten balance preset as factory calibrated.
Yeah I would like to see some more conventional samples out of them too. Perhaps next month when the Kickstarter backers get their cameras.
We'll see how the first production run preorder goes, but I think demand will easily outstrip supply for the next year.
Though you would be surprised how many big name cameras are built in very small batch runs once prices exceed about $3k.
Red Shark News did a tour of a Sony plant in Wales that builds all of the PMW-200's for the world market. They are assembled and tested by one person in runs of just 200 at a time.
