GH2 Diffusion Filters and GH2

M

miiko12

Member
For the past few days I've been doing some research about Diffusion Filters having in mind to reduce the edge sharpening of the GH2 for the following reasons:

- I'm trying to get a more 'organic' and less harsh image out of the gh2 while retaining most of its fantastic resolution (and without having an 80's glow inherent to some diffusion filters)
- edge sharpening is allegedly responsible for the 'stutter problem' (as discussed in this thread: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/526/gh2-stutterjudderstrobe-issues-discussion/p1)

I've read many forum threads discussing such filters from these following two brands:
- Tiffen diffusion filters: http://www.tiffen.com/filters.htm
- Schneider diffusion filters: https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=427

and I've come down to these four filters which seem to be the most interesting in order to achieve the 'look' I'm after:
- Schneider Black Frost https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=1414
- Schneider Hollywood Black Magic https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=344
- Tiffen Black Diffusion http://www.tiffen.com/black__diffusion.htm
- Tiffen Black Pro-Mist http://www.tiffen.com/promist.htm


Now, the thing is that each one of these filters comes in difference strengths (usually from 1/8 to 2) and I couldn't find any good video example
showing the comparison between those filters.
I just found some still examples here http://www.thelondonfiltercompany.com/camera_filters.php

I know that the best thing would be to rent these filters for a day or two and see for myself but, unfortunately, there's no rental houses near from where I live…
So, does anyone here have hands-on experience with these filters? Or even better, does anyone have in his possession one or more of these filters and would be willing to do some kind of comparison test?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks^^

Ps: I forgot to mention that I'm talking about using a diffusion filter with a fast prime (like the nokton 25mm 0.95 or nokton 50mm 1.1) and not a Panasonic lens with electrical
connectivity with the camera body
 
For your info: Be careful stacking diffusion and ND, too much and you choke the sensor, image becomes super grainy and pretty much unusable.

After testing diffusion out over the past few weeks, you definitely need a 2 to really do anything, but I'm not a fan of the look when you have to ND and use a polarizer as well.

If I remember right, when I shot with the diffusion set they were classic softs in various grades, I've also got a 77mm Black Diff and a Hoya Duto.
 
Oh Geez...
I looked at that Tiffen page and there are about 100 different types of diffusion filters.

Again, can anyone recommend a sort of "neutral" one that will add just a small amount of diffusion and no color effects?

Thanks!
 
@fde101
thanks for the link but I had already seen this one and, while being very interesting, it's more about diffusion filters in general
With the strangely high amount of edge sharpening that seems to apply the GH2 I was thinking that it would need a diffusion filter combination of its own, like something we could always leave on the lens.

@kholi
thanks for the info. Yep, stacking a diffusion with a ND filter is one of my worries but I've read in many forum threads that with good quality filters it wouldn't hurt the image quality too much?!
Have you tried the GH2 with one of the filter you mentioned? If so, would you happen to have an example to post? That would be really great. Especially with the tiffen black diffusion which, as I understand, doesn't produce glow or halation but merely soften the high frequency details. What strength is the filter you currently own?
Thanks a lot for your advice^^
 
We've had good luck with Tiffen SoftFX (start with #1) on the 5d. Tends to bloom highlights a bit, but that's about the only complaint.

EDIT: And remember that the filter effect will change form one end a zoom to the next, so it's about striking a balance on a lens like the 14-140.
 
miiko12 said:
@kholi
thanks for the info. Yep, stacking a diffusion with a ND filter is one of my worries but I've read in many forum threads that with good quality filters it wouldn't hurt the image quality too much?!
Click to expand...

Jury's still out for me, but I just realized something. Maybe it's only bad when you shoot wide open (already soft on most glass) and then stack a filter. Perhaps if your glass is say 1.4, you shoot @ 4 in daylight, then stack, it's actually nowhere near as bad.

Have you tried the GH2 with one of the filter you mentioned? If so, would you happen to have an example to post? That would be really great. Especially with the tiffen black diffusion which, as I understand, doesn't produce glow or halation but merely soften the high frequency details. What strength is the filter you currently own?
Thanks a lot for your advice^^
Click to expand...

Ask and you shall receive. Just did this for you when I went to get food at the food trucks.

http://vimeo.com/37401780


Just a quick grab, you can download it.

Standard -2 -2 -2 -2 , Hoya ND x 8, Hoya Polarizer, Black diffusion 3
 
Last edited:
@cosimo bullo
Thanks for the info! Did you feel that the effet of the SoftFX 1 was too strong? Tiffen also makes the SoftFX 1/2 so maybe the highlights wouldn't bloom so much... but then again I'm guessing the result would be quite different with a GH2 than with a 5d, or maybe not??

@kholi
Wow! Thanks a lot for that!!!^^
I actually quite like the look of that sample: low contrast and softened edges. Is it me or, in this example, we can't really see the stutter that the gh2 usually displays? Like when the truck crosses the frame, it looks like with no filter it would have been 'stuttery'. Oh, but is it actually the Black Diffusion or the Black Promist? (the description in your post is different with your vimeo title)
It's surprising that this filter strength of #3 doesn't makes the image mushy but just about right (for my taste).
And yes, I was thinking that for indoors I would use only the Diffusion Filter (as I would tend to open the lens aperture more) and for outdoors a combination of a Diffusion and a ND (and a Polarizer when needed, like in your example)
 
miiko12 said:
@kholi
Wow! Thanks a lot for that!!!^^
I actually quite like the look of that sample: low contrast and softened edges. Is it me or, in this example, we can't really see the stutter that the gh2 usually displays? Like when the truck crosses the frame, it looks like with no filter it would have been 'stuttery'. Oh, but is it actually the Black Diffusion or the Black Promist? (the description in your post is different with your vimeo title)
It's surprising that this filter strength of #3 doesn't makes the image mushy but just about right (for my taste).
And yes, I was thinking that for indoors I would use only the Diffusion Filter (as I would tend to open the lens aperture more) and for outdoors a combination of a Diffusion and a ND (and a Polarizer when needed, like in your example)
Click to expand...

I'm surprised, actually, at how flat it went. And even adjusting it isn't bad at all in an 8-bit space, 10-bit+ should be pretty great.

THe stutter isn't there, but I also use 1/40 shutter, that might also be it. I don't use 1/50. Also, most of the stutter I see comes with clipped highlights. When things are well exposed it's nowhere near as bad.

You're right, it's the Diffusion not ProMist, sorry. Tiffen 77mm BLK DIFFUSION FX 3

After doing this and playing with the footage, I think having the 3 for daylight isn't a bad idea, and going with or without shouldn't hurt. I'll test with glass down to F4 instead of wide open at 1.8, which for this example it was, and the Kipon was stopped down about halfway.

Diffusion indoors would probably be a good idea to aid with highlights.

You also shouldn't have to ND as much if you're shooting 4~5.6, instead of an 8 you'd use a 4.
blkdifb.png


blkdifa.png
 
Kholi said:
I'm surprised, actually, at how flat it went. And even adjusting it isn't bad at all in an 8-bit space, 10-bit+ should be pretty great.

THe stutter isn't there, but I also use 1/40 shutter, that might also be it. I don't use 1/50. Also, most of the stutter I see comes with clipped highlights. When things are well exposed it's nowhere near as bad.

You're right, it's the Diffusion not ProMist, sorry. Tiffen 77mm BLK DIFFUSION FX 3

After doing this and playing with the footage, I think having the 3 for daylight isn't a bad idea, and going with or without shouldn't hurt. I'll test with glass down to F4 instead of wide open at 1.8, which for this example it was, and the Kipon was stopped down about halfway.

Diffusion indoors would probably be a good idea to aid with highlights.

You also shouldn't have to ND as much if you're shooting 4~5.6, instead of an 8 you'd use a 4.
Click to expand...

Yes, it seems indeed to hold pretty well after adjusting!! (the high bitrate hack must play a big role in that too)
Thanks again for this test and if you happen to test again with the aperture of f4.0 would it be possible to do one test with and one without the Black Diffusion (if it's too much of a hassle no problem of course^^)?
I'm just wondering how strong the effect actually is...
 
I shot this clip with a low cost Fotodiox diffuser and Minolta MD 50 f1.7 wide open: http://www.fourseasonshd.com/cgi-bin/csvsearch.pl?db=db5&tp=tp6&search=1140

There are no markings on the filter about the strength, but it was supposed to be low diffusion. However, I would not use it for anything else than effects type shots or really vintage look. It is too strong diffusion. It does make high lights appear very nice and the codec holds really well contrast increase, so I am also very interested in less diffusing filter than this Fotodiox one. Note that the filter appears to be high quality, just too strong diffusion for my taste.
 
Tiffen black fx 1 to 3 in software. More options and calmer. Sometimes gold fx or Beauty Box for glamour. The only hardware filters I use are variable nd and polarizors.
 
miiko12 said:
@kholi
Oh, and I was also wondering why you choose to always shoot at 1/40 shutter speed?
Click to expand...

Despite how many people have said I'm crazy or, outright, told me I could not tell the difference... I don't like the look of 1/50 on any digital camera. If I can't shoot 1/48, I'm gonna shoot 1/45 or 1/40. I wish GH2 did 1/45 because it looks just about perfect on Canons.

I'm curious as to why they can't just add another shutter value that's 1/48.
 
Just yesterday I was on a shoot, and had to do a close up of an actress. The GH2 is so sharp and has such great detail I could see every pore and blemish in her skin, and didn't like it at all. I didn't have any diffusion filters on me, so I did the shot through a single scrim.
 
JoCu said:
Just yesterday I was on a shoot, and had to do a close up of an actress. The GH2 is so sharp and has such great detail I could see every pore and blemish in her skin, and didn't like it at all. I didn't have any diffusion filters on me, so I did the shot through a single scrim.
Click to expand...

indeed! You'd get the same thing with film. That's why softening filters were invented in the first place. And great make-up/artists. xD
 
Kholi said:
Despite how many people have said I'm crazy or, outright, told me I could not tell the difference... I don't like the look of 1/50 on any digital camera. If I can't shoot 1/48, I'm gonna shoot 1/45 or 1/40. I wish GH2 did 1/45 because it looks just about perfect on Canons.

I'm curious as to why they can't just add another shutter value that's 1/48.
Click to expand...

I actually understand what you're saying and me too I like the bit of motion blur that a 1/40 shutter adds but, here in Europe, it's sadly a flickering mess when shooting indoors with available lights...
I'm guessing the sensor is simply not capable of shooting at these shutter speeds (maybe because it's primarily optimized for still and not for video?!)
 
My guess is that it's optimized for stills, not video. Or maybe you're right and it's the sensor. I'm just not sure.

=T Would be nice to know for sure, but it's working out with 1/40 (at least here) so it's all good.

You should be okay with 1/50 in PAL land, though. That's accurate for what you want to shoot, 25P.
 
Aki_Hartikainen said:
I shot this clip with a low cost Fotodiox diffuser and Minolta MD 50 f1.7 wide open: http://www.fourseasonshd.com/cgi-bin/csvsearch.pl?db=db5&tp=tp6&search=1140

There are no markings on the filter about the strength, but it was supposed to be low diffusion. However, I would not use it for anything else than effects type shots or really vintage look. It is too strong diffusion. It does make high lights appear very nice and the codec holds really well contrast increase, so I am also very interested in less diffusing filter than this Fotodiox one. Note that the filter appears to be high quality, just too strong diffusion for my taste.
Click to expand...

Yep, it's a bit strong for my taste too, especially the glow in the highlights.
From what I've seen until now, the Tiffen Black Diffusion seems to be a good choice!
 
Kholi said:
My guess is that it's optimized for stills, not video. Or maybe you're right and it's the sensor. I'm just not sure.

=T Would be nice to know for sure, but it's working out with 1/40 (at least here) so it's all good.

You should be okay with 1/50 in PAL land, though. That's accurate for what you want to shoot, 25P.
Click to expand...

I always shoot at 24p but yeah, 1/50 is fine. Let's hope a 1/48 shutter speed will quickly become standard in dslrs!!

I don't want to bother you with that but did you have by any chance the time to do another quick test with the lens at f4.0 and the Tiffen BD#3 ?
 
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