Diffusing 650w Fresnel

MattRobertson

MattRobertson

Well-known member
Alright so i'm fairly new to lighting, although not a complete noob (I hope lol.). I've got kinda an ecclictic kit so far, would like to get a couple more fresnels eventually and a softbox more or two (they way I can have a nice softbox kit for interviews, and have the flexibility to use the fresnels for more agressive situations). Right now I have a Rifa ex66 tungsten softbox which I use as a key, and i've got a lowel pro as a backlight or kicker (hope to get something stronger in the future for a backlight), and I just bought a coolights 650w fresnel.

I would like to diffuse the 650 fresnel (i haven't recieved it yet however, still being shipped) and use it as a soft fill for 3pt interviews, and I'm trying to figure out the best way to do so. I don't think a softbox is the best option for a fresnel (would rather use a lowel omni or something for that), but I was thinking of just getting some of the lowel frost gel's for the dp light and just clipping them to the barndoors. Those are 12x16, would that fit well with the barndoors of the coollights fresnel or not? Don't want spill coming out anywhere. Would this be the easiest and best way to diffuse it?

Does anybody know how much light loss those frost gels produce? I have the scrim kit with the fresnel so I could always scrim and diffuse, but that might be too much loss.

Any thoughts?

Also, what are your guys thoughts of using a translucent reflector to diffuse light? Would the quality of this diffusion be similar? I've tried this before, but it didn't work too well because I was only using a 250w smith victor flood to light through it and there was too much light loss for it to be an effective fill.
 
I don't know if the Cool Lights come with them, or accommodates them, but wire scrims come in various densities, and are commonly used for knocking larger lights down. Also, there are numerous wattage bulbs (luminares) for the FRG or GY9.5 base. For a soft fill, this will make your choice of gels or whatever, more easy.

Grant
 
Go to local lighting shop and buy several types of diffusion (they are relatively) cheap. Experiment with these. What you learn from this you will use for years. From light opal to tough frost to spun glass and dozens of others they all have varying degrees of light loss and effect the beam differently.
 
While a 650w fresnel is a very useful lighting instrument... If it were me, I would likely use something more suitable for a soft fill light against your 750w soft key.

All the Best!

Dave
 
I'm not sure what you're using to key, but I think using diffusion clipped onto the doors won't make your light soft enough to work as a fill. There are a few factors that affect softness of the light: Density of diffusion being used, how close the diffusion is to the subject, and how big of a piece of diffusion is being filled up with light.

Obviously, the more dense the diffusion you use, the softer the light will be. Opal is a nice very light diffusion, and then there's 252, 251, 250 and 216, 216 being very heavy. With that 650 fresnel you might want to go with some Opal, 251, or even 250, but I think 216 or anything more would kill your output too much.

Now, there's a big difference if you just clip your gel onto the barn doors than if you were to put the gel on a 4'x4' frame and shoot your light into that. Basically what you're doing by adding diffusion is creating a new light source, and the bigger your source is the more it's able to wrap around your subject and create that soft light you're looking for. So, bigger the piece of diffusion that your light is filling up, the softer the light.

The third thing that affects it is it's distance to the subject. Think about the moon. Moonlight is really just a giant bounce light, the biggest bounce light I've ever seen really. You'd think big bounce light, that means it must be very soft. Well, since the moon is so far away it becomes just this little pin prick of light and as a result of which is very hard. So, it's all about the size of the source relative to the subject.

What you'll see DP's do a lot is they'll shoot their wide shot with a soft light, maybe something through a 6x6 frame of diffusion, and then when they go in for a closeup, they'll walk in big piece of diffusion just right out of frame, that way their 4x4 piece of diffusion relative to the subject is humongous, and the light becomes very very soft.

So, these are things to think about when getting diffusion and attempting to make your light soft. Just remember, you can always bounce your light off something too!
 
RyanT said:
I'm not sure what you're using to key, but I think using diffusion clipped onto the doors won't make your light soft enough to work as a fill. There are a few factors that affect softness of the light: Density of diffusion being used, how close the diffusion is to the subject, and how big of a piece of diffusion is being filled up with light.

Obviously, the more dense the diffusion you use, the softer the light will be. Opal is a nice very light diffusion, and then there's 252, 251, 250 and 216, 216 being very heavy. With that 650 fresnel you might want to go with some Opal, 251, or even 250, but I think 216 or anything more would kill your output too much.

Now, there's a big difference if you just clip your gel onto the barn doors than if you were to put the gel on a 4'x4' frame and shoot your light into that. Basically what you're doing by adding diffusion is creating a new light source, and the bigger your source is the more it's able to wrap around your subject and create that soft light you're looking for. So, bigger the piece of diffusion that your light is filling up, the softer the light.

The third thing that affects it is it's distance to the subject. Think about the moon. Moonlight is really just a giant bounce light, the biggest bounce light I've ever seen really. You'd think big bounce light, that means it must be very soft. Well, since the moon is so far away it becomes just this little pin prick of light and as a result of which is very hard. So, it's all about the size of the source relative to the subject.

What you'll see DP's do a lot is they'll shoot their wide shot with a soft light, maybe something through a 6x6 frame of diffusion, and then when they go in for a closeup, they'll walk in big piece of diffusion just right out of frame, that way their 4x4 piece of diffusion relative to the subject is humongous, and the light becomes very very soft.

So, these are things to think about when getting diffusion and attempting to make your light soft. Just remember, you can always bounce your light off something too!
Click to expand...

Excellent points Ryan. I think you explained in far greater detail than I the need to experiment and understand diffusion.
 
RyanT said:
I'm not sure what you're using to key, but I think using diffusion clipped onto the doors won't make your light soft enough to work as a fill. There are a few factors that affect softness of the light: Density of diffusion being used, how close the diffusion is to the subject, and how big of a piece of diffusion is being filled up with light.

Obviously, the more dense the diffusion you use, the softer the light will be. Opal is a nice very light diffusion, and then there's 252, 251, 250 and 216, 216 being very heavy. With that 650 fresnel you might want to go with some Opal, 251, or even 250, but I think 216 or anything more would kill your output too much.

Now, there's a big difference if you just clip your gel onto the barn doors than if you were to put the gel on a 4'x4' frame and shoot your light into that. Basically what you're doing by adding diffusion is creating a new light source, and the bigger your source is the more it's able to wrap around your subject and create that soft light you're looking for. So, bigger the piece of diffusion that your light is filling up, the softer the light.

The third thing that affects it is it's distance to the subject. Think about the moon. Moonlight is really just a giant bounce light, the biggest bounce light I've ever seen really. You'd think big bounce light, that means it must be very soft. Well, since the moon is so far away it becomes just this little pin prick of light and as a result of which is very hard. So, it's all about the size of the source relative to the subject.

What you'll see DP's do a lot is they'll shoot their wide shot with a soft light, maybe something through a 6x6 frame of diffusion, and then when they go in for a closeup, they'll walk in big piece of diffusion just right out of frame, that way their 4x4 piece of diffusion relative to the subject is humongous, and the light becomes very very soft.

So, these are things to think about when getting diffusion and attempting to make your light soft. Just remember, you can always bounce your light off something too!
Click to expand...

I was going to use the Rifa 66 to key. Thanks for the advice though!
 
Maybe reversing the two lights would be helpful. Fresnel (relatively hard) for the key light, and the Rifa (soft) for a fill. That's the way I would normally approach it, unless there were a special reason to do otherwise.

- Greg
 
Greg Smith said:
Maybe reversing the two lights would be helpful. Fresnel (relatively hard) for the key light, and the Rifa (soft) for a fill. That's the way I would normally approach it, unless there were a special reason to do otherwise.

- Greg
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip! Thats what I was thinking of doing.. Would you diffuse the fresnel at all or just leave it hard on flood and leave it hard? Like I said i'm pretty new to lighting so still trying to get my bearings.. Slowly but surely
 
MattRobertson said:
Thanks for the tip! Thats what I was thinking of doing.. Would you diffuse the fresnel at all or just leave it hard on flood and leave it hard? Like I said i'm pretty new to lighting so still trying to get my bearings.. Slowly but surely
Click to expand...

It's pretty much up to your own aesthetic sense. An undiffused fresnel is good for a dramatic, high-contrast look, but if you're going for a flatter look with more fill, I'd probably shoot it through some Tough Spun or something at a minimum to take the edge off the shadows.

- Greg
 
Newbie on lighting here.

I have 650W Arri and I find it very harsh to the subject.
Thinking about making it diffused.
Wondering what is the difference between the three?
1.) ARRI 650W + parchment paper on the barn doors
2.) ARRI 650W + white shower curtain about 5 feet to the fresnel
3.) ARRI 650W + light dimmer(Router speed controller)
 
The dimmer will have no effect at all on diffusion, just one exposure and color temp.

Skip the white shower curtain and get some ripstop nylon on a frame or hung.

Read up, google, search around here. "Soft" light is all about source size, diffusion material, size of diffusion or bounce you're projecting onto, distances from subject to diffusion to source, etc. You can diffuse light with anything from thin gauze to a heavy 2-stop material, and each will have a different look.

An hour of experimenting and testing will yield far better results than reading though.
 
A very affordable and easy way to diffuse light is to bounce the beam off a white bounce card or reflector. The bounced light gives off a fair quality of light that wraps around the subject. I'd play around with the angle of the bounce. Set it to where you want and clamp it on a C-stand with an arm or another stand that works. You can also shoot the beam through some white cloth like a bed sheet or silk, it just has to be stretched. Keep it far enough from the fresnel so it doesn't catch fire. That diffused 650w will be a substantial amount for correct exposure, especially if you're filming on a digital medium.

Michael Carter does make a good point. You won't know until you test it out and figure for yourself. Everyone has a different lighting style, it's up to you to make it your own.

Post about your experience with the cool lights fresnel. I'd love to hear about it. I'm thinking about picking up a fresnel and a 455 flo.

MK
 
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