Difference between cheap and expensive recorders?

JamesBe said:
Happened to come across this thread by accident.

Just wondering what the difference between expensive and cheap digital recorders are. Don't they basically function the same?
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Bit like asking if all cars are the same, as they basically function the same: engine, 4 wheels and a couple of seats.

Better recorders have much better mic-preamps and AD converters, better headphone amps, better connectors, phantom powering, stronger build quality, etc.etc.

Just take a look at the real technical specks of a "real" recorder like Sound Devices 722 and some El Cheapo "recorder" (which is unlikely to publish any honest figures anyway). Even if both advertise 24/96 recording, the difference is night and day.

That said, it is perfectly possible to capture usable and even good audio with cheaper gear also, as long as the limitations are acknowledged and the operator knows his/her stuff.
 
Understood Petrus!

Ended up going with a Tascam DR-05 and am going to do some heavy field recording with parabolic and shotgun mics.
 
JamesBe said:
Ended up going with a Tascam DR-05 and am going to do some heavy field recording with parabolic and shotgun mics.
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Is there a reason you opted for a recorder without XLR inputs for this kind of work? Do you have a mixer that you'll be using in front of the recorder?
 
Alex H. said:
Is there a reason you opted for a recorder without XLR inputs for this kind of work? Do you have a mixer that you'll be using in front of the recorder?
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Will end up picking up an adapter eventually here. I'm trying to build up a bare bones audio system and will mix with software. I'd like to work on my skills before investing in some serious gear. This is just for a personal film projects until I get enough experience.
 
JamesBe said:
I'm trying to build up a bare bones audio system and will mix with software. I'd like to work on my skills before investing in some serious gear. This is just for a personal film projects until I get enough experience.
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I think you've missed the point of that question. Having XLR inputs, or having a mixer in front of the recorder, is not about "mixing" in the sense of audio post-production. It's strictly about recording, and being able to interface the right mics with the recorder.

The DR-05 has only 1/8" inputs. That's pretty limiting, especially if you're looking at using a wide array of mics. Yes, you can use adapters, but don't expect great things as the pre-amps in devices like these are pretty shoddy. Having a mixer, such as the MixPre-D, in front of the DR-05 would at least give you the option of using professional mics, connected via XLR, and to output a line-level signal to the DR-05.

The DR-40 would be a much better investment. It offers better pre-amps and would allow you to use a wide variety of good mics, and to add a better-quality front end (mixer) later on down the road. I would not call it "serious gear" by any means as it is a low-cost, hand-held recorder. It's not much more expensive than the DR-05, but far outweighs the DR-05 in capability. And even though it's a low-cost solution, it's pretty capable. I keep one in my kit, even though I have a much better recorder with my mixer.
 
I may very well upgrade to a DR-40. I know the 05 or 40 is considered a toy in the film world, but have to start somewhere. Just trying to build a bare bones double system. I am not able to record sound with the camera I am using, so some dialogue maybe recorded post. There are a lot of limiting factors here, no doubt.
 
JamesBe said:
I may very well upgrade to a DR-40. I know the 05 or 40 is considered a toy in the film world, but have to start somewhere. Just trying to build a bare bones double system. I am not able to record sound with the camera I am using, so some dialogue maybe recorded post. There are a lot of limiting factors here, no doubt.
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Right, but the DR-05 is much more limiting than the DR-40, as far as "bare-bones" kits go.
 
Alex H. said:
Right, but the DR-05 is much more limiting than the DR-40, as far as "bare-bones" kits go.
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In your opinion, would it be better to set these types of units on the end of the boom and record directly into unit or to shotgun mic and run a cord offset(away from the acting) to the unit.
Do you think these units make any buzzing? From what I understand they can be sensitive to cell phones, some lights, etc.
 
JamesBe said:
In your opinion, would it be better to set these types of units on the end of the boom and record or to shotgun mic and run a cord offset(away from the acting).
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Absolutely not a good idea to use the recorder itself on the end of a pole, for a few reasons:

1) The built-in mics are typically either cardioid or omni (depends on the recorder). Cardioid is too wide a pattern to get dialog without too many reflections in a room, or without too much background sound outside. Omni is right out.

2) The built-in mics are in a stereo pair. Dialog should be recorded in mono, as it will be mixed in mono for the final product. Further, with cardioids, the mics are pointed in different directions, so someone is always going to be off-axis.

3) Placing the recorder on a pole means that the meters and all the controls are completely out of reach except between takes.

The best way to use one of these is to have it in a bag, in a belt-clipped pouch, or otherwise attached to your person, while holding a shotgun or hypercardioid on a fish pole (boom) connected to the recorder by an XLR cable.

JamesBe said:
Do you think these units make any buzzing?
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Buzzing? Well, there are no moving parts, so there's no mechanical noise at all. There have been issues with some recorders (H4) getting signal interference when using the wall-wart power supply, but that's about it.
 
Plus the fact it could fall isnt good. I heard that the XLR cables can degrade sound(the longer they are).
I plan on getting atleast a 10 foot boom.


Do you think it is possible to use these types of units for recording ambient sound or would a parabolic microphone(yes a cheaper one)
work better? Just wondering how multpurpose these little gadgets are.
 
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JamesBe said:
Plus the fact it could fall isnt good. I heard that the XLR cables can degrade sound(the longer they are).
I plan on getting atleast a 10 foot boom.
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Where did you hear that? Balanced mic signals over XLR cables - GOOD cables, properly-wired - will not suffer from degraded sound. Major concert tours and broadcast installations run XLR cables both for mic- and line-level feeds often hundreds of feet.

Unbalanced cables are what will degrade over distance, and if you have a recorder with a stereo 1/8" input... you're working with unbalanced cable runs.
 
JamesBe said:
I heard that the XLR cables can degrade sound(the longer they are).
I plan on getting atleast a 10 foot boom.
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What? No. You can run a couple of hundred feed of XLR no problem because they're balanced. I wouldn't go more than 20-30 feet with an unbalanced cable. I once ran a custom 500 foot snake that had 16 XLR cables.

This might help you understand cables a bit better: http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/cables/cables_buying-guide.php

Oh, and I love my DR-40. As I've said elsewhere on these forums, best bang for the buck by far....
 
Well I read that the XLR to 1/8 adapter will degrade the sound. Yeah, that DR 40 is really calling out to me now lol.
 
Do NOT use a parabolic for dialog unless you're a private investigator! Or have no other option. The nature of parabolics is they are like lasers to get sound but with major low frequency loss. Sound super tinny. I actually used one a telinga for audio capture of seminars where people were majorly spread out and it wasnt realistic to mic the whole room, nor pass around handheld units...way too disruptive. So parabolic was my only choice. Speech was understandable but super tinny and not particularly pleasant to listen to, but it did work. Oh also the parabolics worth their salt are pretty expensive, $1200 to over $4000 for a big ear. So design your dialog scenes for boom or lav use.
 
JamesBe said:
Do you think it is possible to use these types of units for recording ambient sound or would a parabolic microphone(yes a cheaper one)
work better? Just wondering how multpurpose these little gadgets are.
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They are great for this. A cheap parabolic... not so much. Even a pricey parabolic is not the right choice. Those are more for things like surveillance and for grabbing field action from the sidelines during a football game.

I keep a DR-40 in my kit, as I've said, even though I use a better recorder for primary work. The DR-40 is my go-to when I need to grab ambient sound beds. When production is down, I can grab the hand-held recorder and take care of some FX work on my own, without having to re-configure my main kit. The built-in mics are perfectly fine for things like traffic, rain, forest sounds, etc.
 
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