I was asked to help do audio, since a guy dropped out. We were going around a night club interviewing people. I don't know as much about audio, but seem to no more than a lot, which is why I am sometimes asked by my collaborators if they need me. I had a choice between a shotgun, a supercardioid, and a hyper for nightclub. Since it was live and uncontrolled it was very noisy as you can imagine. The mic that blocked out background sound the most, was the super, but I had to turn the gain and fader way up, and there was more hissing, so I thought using it was a bad idea. The second least amount, but less hissing, was the hyper. So I used that but now I was told that I should have used one of the others, cause the background noise is hideous. Is this true, does a hyper invite more in, in a loud nightclub environment? Is a super better?
Did I use the wrong type of mic?
- Thread starter ironpony
- Start date
recordingwhiz
Well-known member
Need more info... which model mic? mixer? pre-amp? recorder?
just knowing the pick up pattern is not enough to help.
cheers
just knowing the pick up pattern is not enough to help.
cheers
GaryNattrass
Veteran
How far away was the mic? in a noisy nightclub you would generally be better off with a dynamic stick mic and get the interviewer to use it correctly as it would need to be 6-12 inches from the speaker depending on the loudness of the background noise.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Actually in your situation about the only thing that would make a big difference is mic type and proximity. In a loud environment like that you will need to be so close to the speaker to pick them up decently that the pattern doesn't make that big a difference. A dynamic mic tends to hear less of anything far away so it is probably better in that situation. BUT with any of them you are going to have to be in an in your face interview position to get rid of much of the background. If your booming you are probably hosed no mater what you do.
I suspect that the problem is more with the producers "knowledge" about sound than with mic selection. A mic is not a lens, it doesn't isolate it just focuses. It's more like your always shooting wide-angle but you can chose how much of the image is in focus. So that shotgun still "sees" the whole room but only a small part is in focus.
I suspect that the problem is more with the producers "knowledge" about sound than with mic selection. A mic is not a lens, it doesn't isolate it just focuses. It's more like your always shooting wide-angle but you can chose how much of the image is in focus. So that shotgun still "sees" the whole room but only a small part is in focus.
David W. Jones
Veteran
EV RE-50/B with a butt-plug.
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
There's the correct answer.
Stick mic (any news style mic... i.e. dynamic handheld) almost shoved in the mouth of anybody you want to hear clearly. Don't want to see the mic on-cam? Forget it... that's the ONLY choice in the situation you just described.
Bruce Watson
Veteran
Beat me to it. The latest Electro-Voice RE50N/D-B is a heck of a reporters' mic. They were using them all over NYC during Sandy with only a foam windscreen and they sounded great.
In the OP's situation, this omni pattern mic is probably a better choice than any of the more directional choices. Because you need to get in very close to the speaker's mouth (10 cm or less) in this noisy environment, and an omni isn't susceptible to proximity effect.
GaryNattrass
Veteran
I agree with all the above and have just got myself two EV RE50N/D-B, I also have two beyer M58's which would also be OK for such applications.
David W. Jones
Veteran
An Omni-Directional Dynamic Mic. All the needed info is in the link Bruce posted.
The Electro Voice RE50N/D-B is the updated version of the RE50B with Neodymium Rare-Earth Magnet.
I picked up mine used on ebay for under $100
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GaryNattrass
Veteran
Well the director needs to go back to his drawing board and learn something about audio and basic sound recording if he want's to hear what his subjects are saying in a noisy environment.
Booms in noisy situations do not work unless the framing is very tight i.e BIG CLOSE UP'S and a lack of awareness of this makes him a BAD director! a lav mic is also useless in this sort of situation.
Booms in noisy situations do not work unless the framing is very tight i.e BIG CLOSE UP'S and a lack of awareness of this makes him a BAD director! a lav mic is also useless in this sort of situation.
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
It's omni... dynamic.
Any of THESE would have worked, but the EV RE50 is the go-to mic for this sort of thing. The director didn't want to see the mic? Well... too bad, then hopefully he wanted horrible sound too. Otherwise it's like telling a DP the shot must be bright, but we can't use any lights in the middle of nowhere.
It's opposites... I want it to sound good, but we can't control the noise and we can't see the mic. Is this his/her first shoot ever? That's impossible. Do you think the news wants to see mics? Or do you think they do what they HAVE to do to get the sound?
Any of THESE would have worked, but the EV RE50 is the go-to mic for this sort of thing. The director didn't want to see the mic? Well... too bad, then hopefully he wanted horrible sound too. Otherwise it's like telling a DP the shot must be bright, but we can't use any lights in the middle of nowhere.
It's opposites... I want it to sound good, but we can't control the noise and we can't see the mic. Is this his/her first shoot ever? That's impossible. Do you think the news wants to see mics? Or do you think they do what they HAVE to do to get the sound?
Ditto here on the re-50, great mic and doubles as a hammer. However, with so many folks wanting or needing to record direct to a h4n or dr100, there is going to be a whole new flood of "I don't have enough gain and other HISSY fits. So let me answer this now; if you use a re50-n/b with a zoom or dr100 recorder, you will need a mixer or other preamp. If you do that, everything is golden.
Grant
Grant
Rippie
Veteran
One other thing worth mentioning is its absolutely worth telling your producer/director that you may need to distance yourself from the offending noise in that type of situation. That could mean
moving into a far away corner with the visuals still in the BG, or any other possible locations.
Choosing the correct mic will only get you so far if the bg noise is out of control.
moving into a far away corner with the visuals still in the BG, or any other possible locations.
Choosing the correct mic will only get you so far if the bg noise is out of control.
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
I'll bet the director watched a movie with an actor walking through a nightclub and thought, "let's go down to a nightclub and get that scene"... not realizing that in the actual scene there was no music and nobody but the actors were making a sound... then all the music and ambience was added later.
He probably also wanted a steadycam "flying through the crowd" shot... and was upset with the cam-op who's shot looked handheld (because the poor guy did his best walking through a live club, holding a cam out in front of himself like a jack and coke, with people bumping into him).
He probably also wanted a steadycam "flying through the crowd" shot... and was upset with the cam-op who's shot looked handheld (because the poor guy did his best walking through a live club, holding a cam out in front of himself like a jack and coke, with people bumping into him).
GaryNattrass
Veteran
Ah the old give me feature film quality but lets forget about doing it properly type of director coz we is street and can break all the rules to make it wicked !!!!!!
I was dubbing an ITV cop show called The Bill once and some muppet director asked me to "make it sound like Alien" ?????? WTF
I said no problem just give me the same budget, time and crew that they had!
I was dubbing an ITV cop show called The Bill once and some muppet director asked me to "make it sound like Alien" ?????? WTF
I said no problem just give me the same budget, time and crew that they had!
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Noiz2
Sound Ninja
WHAT! you don't have the "Alien" plug in?????
I had a director that wanted a "demon scream". He didn't like what I had used, "i don't want animal sounds in there I want a demon scream"???
I asked what that sounded like to him. His response was "you know a standard library demon scream, it's used all the time". After going around a bit I suggested we do a search on Sound Dogs. We got a hit and it was a bunch of big cat screams with some goosing, sounded a lot like what I had made. "No, no, no, I just want a standard demon scream. It's a standard sound!!".
In the end he liked some monster sounds I had created for a game (the ones they didn't use) and he was happy and said "see they are standard library sounds". I pointed out that I and another designer worked weeks on those sounds and they were not "library sounds" but MY sounds. And that the cost to create them was over what his total sound post budget was. I don't think it sunk in though.
And he was not a young kid, he was in his fifties probably, and had a budget. A little mid life crisis adventure (nightmare for everyone else).
I had a director that wanted a "demon scream". He didn't like what I had used, "i don't want animal sounds in there I want a demon scream"???
I asked what that sounded like to him. His response was "you know a standard library demon scream, it's used all the time". After going around a bit I suggested we do a search on Sound Dogs. We got a hit and it was a bunch of big cat screams with some goosing, sounded a lot like what I had made. "No, no, no, I just want a standard demon scream. It's a standard sound!!".
In the end he liked some monster sounds I had created for a game (the ones they didn't use) and he was happy and said "see they are standard library sounds". I pointed out that I and another designer worked weeks on those sounds and they were not "library sounds" but MY sounds. And that the cost to create them was over what his total sound post budget was. I don't think it sunk in though.
And he was not a young kid, he was in his fifties probably, and had a budget. A little mid life crisis adventure (nightmare for everyone else).
paulears
Veteran
Watch formula 1 in the pit lane. Omni mics, but with a long handle.
The thing I don't think people have picked up on is hiss - in a nightclub with ANY mic, the big problem isn't turning the gain up, but adding additional pads. With the 'wrong' mic, all that would happen is the music would be heard, loudly, and not much of the interviewee. Booming is daft, really quite impossible. Any mic, will hear sound, and in a nightclub scenario, the room sound is loud enough that you have to shout to hear people. Pointing a shotgun, or a hyper at somebody who you yourself cannot hear unless you get in close simply means the mic won't either! If you want to hear what they say, then the mic needs to be where YOU can hear what they say, and that's close in!!
The thing I don't think people have picked up on is hiss - in a nightclub with ANY mic, the big problem isn't turning the gain up, but adding additional pads. With the 'wrong' mic, all that would happen is the music would be heard, loudly, and not much of the interviewee. Booming is daft, really quite impossible. Any mic, will hear sound, and in a nightclub scenario, the room sound is loud enough that you have to shout to hear people. Pointing a shotgun, or a hyper at somebody who you yourself cannot hear unless you get in close simply means the mic won't either! If you want to hear what they say, then the mic needs to be where YOU can hear what they say, and that's close in!!