Destroying a Toilet

P

Policar

Carbonite Member
I'm working on a scene in which someone destroys a toilet by kicking it. My current plan is to break the toilet with a sledgehammer at the intended point of impact, then glue it back together with weak glue, put a plastic bag full of water in it, then kick it with a steel-tipped boot. Might this work? Does anyone know how ceramics typically break?

It was suggested by a low budget special effects company that I build a toilet out of thin-shelled plaster, plant a small charge in it, then kick with the steel-tipped boot, but this method is beyond my means.

Thanks.
 
Whatever you end up doing, it's going to end up being a crap shoot.


My only real input is that it may take a LONG time to glue the parts back together, and the cracks my be visible. It only has to *look* like a toilet, right? Could you perhaps use a plastic one and find a way for it to break up properly?
Or perhaps model one out of a large block of Styrofoam and give it some sort of convincing shell, you could even pre-score it inside with a knife, or even have separate pieces under the shell.
Or how about weakening a ceramic toilet, for example by drilling it full of holes from the non-camera side.

- Mikko
 
Alas, my dad is a plumber and growing up I have hit many a toilet with a sledgehammer.

My first question is what do you mean by "destoys a toilet by kicking it"? Is he like Superman and he kicks it and the thing explodes? Or is a big, strong guy and when he kicks it it shatters and falls apart? Or he's a normal guy and while in real life his kick wouldn't break it, but on screen his kick knocks a piece off.

First. When you hit the toilet with the sldgehammer, you will not only get big chunks, but also many, many tiny pieces and "splinter" type pieces. It would not all fit back together in a nice little puzzle. That is okay, though. You can get all the big pieces, put them together, then use some light weight plaster and completely smooth it over the sides and you will never see the small cracks.

Keep in mind that that toilet boawl is not solid. It is hollow inside. So if you swing the hammer at the side of the bowl, yo will not end up with a chunk of the bowl, you will end up with a chunk of the outside (many chunks and pieces) as well as a chunk of the bowl (again, many).

Now that I think about it, break that bowl, glue the inside back together, smoth it with plaster, then bust out your preschool plaster of paris making skills and use some newspaper and plaster to sculpt yourself a new outside layer. That way your guy will only be kicking the lightweight plaster and no porceline at all.

Just thoughts.

-GageFX
 
Wow, thanks for the replies. It's amazing how useful these forums are, especially to someone like me who's not too mechanically inclined.

GageFX, I had no idea that toilets were hollow in the first place, but I guess that makes things easier. Your reply was awesomely helpful.

I'll probably crack the area of impact carefully into large chunks so I don't get too much debris, rather than just smashing the whole thing really hard, then use a combination of large pieces and plaster to build the missing segment. I guess since the toilet is hollow I can also throw some dust and debris between the two layers to make the effect more impressive.

The context of the shot is somewhere between a normal person and superman kicking a toilet; basically, this awkward guy is discovering he has super powers and he kicks a toilet to try them out. So it should look impressive, but a bit awkward, too. I may add some extra debris in post and I'll probably shoot at 30fps to add more "weight" to the impact. Here's a link if you're curious (there's a title for the missing shot):

http://home.comcast.net/~wauhkies/bathroom.mov

As you can see, it's a fast cut from another angle so I can blur out the imperfections in the model toilet from the first few frames--having the toilet look 100% normal isn't imperative. And I'm building a mini-set for the surroundings, since I can't do this on location...

Anyhow, thanks a bunch. If you have any further feedback (particularly regarding the method above), I'd love to hear it. If my plastering skills are any good I may try replacing a whole portion of the toilet with plaster, but I think the ceramics would ultimately look better and still break convincingly.
 
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Wow, I can't believe I didn't get the double entendre until now.

The sad thing is, I almost decided on using a uhh... "pre-owned" toilet to save money.
 
Just a thought - if you tape the area of the toilet you want to break (outside and inside) with clear packing tape (or gaffer tape) it should break "clean" with no tiny shards.

Good luck with it. I look forward to seeing the finished product.
 
What about if you used a rotozip to cut the piece of toilet out. The rotozip shouldn't crack any other part of the toilet because they are made to cut tile and such. Then glue the piece back in with something like Elmers glue and voila', one piece that comes out.
 
have you thought about doing it in 3d and then comping' it back into the video?

heres a quick test I knocked up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr3PBPdf79s

of course if you spend enough time on it, you could pull it off really good.

Mind you, it would have to be a locked down shot, otherwise you would have to track it and that would add tons of extra time to do that shot.
 
Wow Anhar, that looks pretty good. For "a quick test" that's really quick! Smooth.

I'm sure somebody like Mark Johnson (is he still vislaw?) could do a really photorealistic one, especially because he works with big-scale collisions (recreating crashes and stuff for cases, right?) I'm not sure if he comes around here anymore. A small scale collision like this would probably be easy but I dunno. Maybe I'm stupid.
 
WHATEVER you do, please wear safety glasses if you are going to be breaking ceramic with hammers & boots. We visual arts types tend to need our eyes intact rather badly!

Video is what we do... Safely is how we do it!

This PSA is now over. : )

Vic Rattlehead
 
Unfortunately, I don't own a rotozip so that option's out (although it's a good idea). Instead, I'll probably use a screwdriver to drill a few holes and make an outline of the area I want to smash so I don't end up doing too much damage outside of it. Using tape is a very smart idea; I hadn't thought of that but I'll try it for sure.

The CGI option is tempting, but I'm already using some CGI in these scene and I want to mix it up with practical effects. The physics look great, though. Are you using reactor? I've been meaning to learn it and it would definitely be applicable elsewhere in the scene.

Thanks again for all the help.
 
Rent a rotozip for crying out loud! It's easy, probably cost you 20 bucks at a rental place. Remember your time involved. Or even better yet go buy one at Home Depot or Costco and take it back after you use it. They both take things back no questions asked.
 
yea, I'm usign reactor, with a little "fracture" plugin, it fractures any object into natural looling random chunks, the trick is to "pre-facture" and then give each piece its own weight and then just hit it with another object and watch it get all destroyed :)

Of course, I did not even model it in any detail, you can of course get good reference photos then model each part seperatley, you can even add fluid simulation to add the water in the Cistern and "bowl" and watch the mess!
with a good HDRI from that on location shot and some facny materials its should fool the average Joe and perhaps some pros too (mind you use a locked down shot, moving shot is a little bit more complicated, with matchmoving which is nice but time consuming)

then just comp it in AE, Shake or Combustion. Add some debris, dust etc. Voila
 
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