Dead Horse anyone?

Juanfordroad

Juanfordroad

Active member
Been reading the posts on stuttering, strobing, jerky 24p video until I think I've developed parkinson's... So the video pans I shot the other day @ 24p look peachy on the raw tape through computer and tv screens. In fact, I follow-panned a human in a previous tape, slowed it down a little and thought, for a brief moment, my last name was Schpeilberg! Hand held even! But processing the pan from the other day (outdoors, mountains, schmaltzy stuff) with my slow G-4 using Premiere 6.0 and AE 5.5 (sorry, no leftovers for an upgrade), the pans looked like my wife's little league videos when Mikey hit a homer...

So what's the deal? The stuff was shot on f5 with default shutter speed, firewired into the G-4 and saved on a firewire drive, edited with no speed correction in Premiere 6.0, separetly editied in AE 5.5 and looks herky jerky...

Thanks, as always for your inputz...
 
HorseFilms said:
Was the OIS on?
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe it was. I'll try another with it off, thank you very much...

Noah, over at the cow, said I'll have to rise to Premiere Pro to fix the shakes. Zatso?

Thanks again
Juan, two, three...
 
Went out and reshot some scenes turning the OIS off. Pans, zooms, etc. Again, looking at the raw on a tv screen, it looked fine as frog hair. But put it through the Premiere capture mill; not even the render mill, and let the dance begin...

Guess I'll forever be a 60i guy unless I can upgrade...

J.F.D.R.
 
How fast are you panning? You have to slow down considerably when shooting 24p. It's the nature of the beast.
 
So, are you properly removing the 2:3:3:2 pulldown. If not, this would explain some of the jerkiness. Too tired to explain what it is - if someone else here has the knowledge and incination, be my guest... Otherwise, Juanfordroad, just google it (DVX 2:3:3:2 pulldown)

EDIT: Also, is your editing timeline in your NLE set to 23.98 (or 24, can't remember...) Are you shooting in 24P advanced, or just regular 24P? These are things we need to know.
 
You're editing in Premiere 6.0? You're seeing a 24P source converted to 60i with a 3:2 pulldown that was deinterlaced for playback to 30P. At least I think that's what it does on the computer monitor - try outputting it through firewire, and see if the problem is still there. It'll be back in regular NTSC land, and the motion should look like the motion of any movie.

That would also explain why they recommended using Premiere Pro - if you were editing in 24PA, you would be seeing 24P native frames on the computer monitor (which would look as smoother as 24P can get) and on video playback you'd see it with a regular pulldown. You'd get the best playback on both mediums.
 
in p 6.5 or 6.0 you cant perform 24p pulldown. so hes seeing the 29.976 24pa stream or the 29.976 24pn strea right out of the camera. .. should be using 24pn.
 
Oddles of good suggestions and I'll try them all but: a) shoot was @24p[n] and, b) I can't remove the pulldown without spending another arm and leg on upgrades (soft & hard).

Many thanks to all and hope to be a regular p-i-a here on the board...
Ralph
 
Can anyone think of any other examples of strobing in Hollywood films? I was watching Goodfellas the other day, and the camera moves like crazy in it (sometimes fast), and I didn't notice any instance of strobing at all. I've looked for it in other films with fast camera movement, but it doesn't seem as apparent as it does on the DVX. Am I missing something?
 
Alarming amounts of strobing can be seen in the opening sequence in "Sahara", which is about a three or four-minute jib shot panning around a room.

In "Pirates of the Caribbean", when they show Johnny Depp's POV as his boat is sailing/sinking when we first meet him.

In "Network", you'll see enough strobing to have you clawing at your eyes, if you look for it. Any time they're panning/tracking down one of those halls, with the white walls interrupted by door frames, if you look at the wall (instead of the character) you'll see mad strobing.

In either Harry Potter III or Lemony Snicket, I'm thinking Harry Potter probably, the end credits were some sort of panning across a map, and it strobed very objectionably in the theater.

Strobing happens when you move the camera quicker than you should, but not quick enough. Move the camera fast enough (whip pans, etc) and you won't see any strobing at all. But there are certain speeds where strobing is very visible.

And yes, it has been tested and verified, the DVX strobes exactly the same way film does. Or, put another way, film strobes exactly the same way the DVX does.
 
Thanks Barry and all for your inputs. I'm new to the camera and will do more practicing before I come back to haunt these posts; maybe...
 
I was also concerned about this. It took a few hours of experimentation to find the best panning speeds and burn it into my subconscious.

A couple weeks ago I did a corporate in an oil refinery, which I thought would have been a nightmare because of all the vertical pipes and sharp edges (and large areas which need to be panned) -- but there was no strobing at all.

I was there last year and shot on video with was then converted to progressive for a cdrom, and the strobing was terrible. I had to manually add motion-blur to all the afflicted scenes.
 
Thanks pmark23,
Found out a workaround from Ryan over at the cow by removing the pulldown in AE. Extra step but should slow down the strobing...
Juan
 
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