Day Rates and Cities

chris f

chris f

Veteran
I'm sure this varies wildly, but have been thinking about this as I've been recently getting inquiries from several NYC production companies and media outlets that almost everyone on here has heard of that have been offering a comically low rates for cinematography AND for 12 hr days. In my experience over the last several years I can generalize inquiries and booked gigs of the following home cities of production companies coming to San Diego for projects:

*San Diego - Standard rates for 10hr days (most clients/crews are fairly laid back)

Los Angeles - Standard rates for 10hr days (usually more paperwork/hoops to jump through before booking, overall vibe a little more tense)
New York - 50-60% of standard rates for 12 hr days (almost always pass on NYC inquiries)
Chicago - 100-130% of standard rates for 10 hr days (least amount of paperwork, more laid back producers)


Overall in my experience producers coming from Chicago have by far been the easiest to work with and most generous when negotiating rates.


Curious what everyone else's experience has been...
 
There are too many variables involved to form one conclusion.

I know no one likes to discuss their own rates, but that's the best way to answer your question.

[I've always waited for someone to start a blunt "What do you get paid?" thread.]
 
I feel like everyone pays equal to or greater than LA, too much competition here.

My anecdotal experience:
The only clients that pay on a 12 hour day are in the music industry, everyone else is based off 10.
 
FWIW when I was hot and heavy into freelance work I turned down every offer I got from NYC as they were as Chris put it, "comically low".
 
I think that the going day rate in Iowa is around $600, don't quote me on that, as I'm kinda out of the loop. Companies (especially on Craig's list) regularly ask you to provide your own gear and work 12 hour days for half the going rate.
 
David W. Jones said:
FWIW when I was hot and heavy into freelance work I turned down every offer I got from NYC as they were as Chris put it, "comically low".
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The other factor is, depending on where you are from, getting booked to shoot in NYC, if it's anything shooting on stages, you generally can't do it unless you are union and you have permission.
I'm in ICG 600 here in LA and depending on what kind of production you are on, you might get permission from your own union and the NY union to be able to shoot there. If you are not union,
you generally are going to get hassled shooting on anything "official" in NY as NY is heavily a union town, unless you are shooting in private buildings that have nothing to do with union functions
or on non-Union ultra low budget projects shooting there.

Since I largely shoot BTS/EPK kind of stuff, I've been able to shoot a few times there on big sets, at the studios, but they check union cards and will boot you if you are not union. Also, this extends
to even live corporate events, you may get hassled if you are going to shoot at a large event at Javits or elsewhere. None of this is consistent, it's doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule, just a
hassle factor.

Every time I have shot in NYC, I have been hired by an LA production company so rates have been consistent with LA. I've never been hired by an NYC firm to shoot in NYC but I have been hired
plenty of times by an NYC agency to shoot in LA ahd the rates were a little low, but not comically low.
 
Not to throw an off topic bit in here, but I know several people that have worked for ABC (as freelance) and had to join one of the NABET regions in order to keep working for them. This was on projects across the country, not just in NYC. What they really wanted (the union) was to join the NYC chapter which was truly a losing proposition in fees and and dues. Most guys end up joining either our local or the next region west as the out of pocket is much better compared to the rates they are receiving. The NYC chapter doesn't like it, but they deal with it. Work here ranges from $250 to $600 /10 hour depending on the shoot and position with things like licensed aerial (drone) around $2600/10 hour including gear. Pretty sure the spotter comes out of that $2600 and the one guy I know doing this treats his people well and most end up flying along side him after they get licensed.
 
I just had a UK-based company reach out asking me to shoot on an iPhone for about 70% of my usual daily rate. I'm not comfortable going into a professional production with anything less than a capable mirrorless camera (cinema camera preferred) so I offered to bring along my semi-retired C100 for a slightly higher rate. They said there was no wiggle room on the price, so the deal never happened. Anyone else been getting requests like these?
 
Nyc probably has enough talent to soak up the good rates.

If they are looking for an owner op out of state, chances are because they have a low budget to begin with.

National standard rates are probably still barely enough for freelancing NY locals. So expensive to live there.
 
How much were they offering? Sounds like $100 to $200 usd. And how were they going to pay you? Sounds like they may have found a way to not pay you in the end, which happens a lot on the low bidder jobs.
 
QuickHitRecord said:
I just had a UK-based company reach out asking me to shoot on an iPhone for about 70% of my usual daily rate. I'm not comfortable going into a professional production with anything less than a capable mirrorless camera (cinema camera preferred) so I offered to bring along my semi-retired C100 for a slightly higher rate. They said there was no wiggle room on the price, so the deal never happened. Anyone else been getting requests like these?
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Not me. Most of our clients will only shoot on C200, 300 MKII, FS7 or higher like REDs. Interesting that at least one of your clients are wanting to shoot on a camera that is very limited and has a distinctly handicapped look.
While phone footage can look good, you'll work harder to make it look as good as your mirrorless or digital cinema camera can look as far as lighting, light control, camera movement, etc.
Personally, I'd want a bump, not a discount if a client really wanted me to do a professional shoot with a phone. You're going to work harder to make good looking images with a phone, you should get paid more, not less.

I did do a shoot two years ago for Netflix for GLOW. They wanted to do a piece about all of the female talent getting made up with all of that 80s looking big hair, crazy makeup and wardrobe so they needed five Go Pros, all shooting
time lapse of each talent getting made up at the same time. I did pretty well as far as invoice on that day but I was running as far as keeping all five Go Pros recording, changing out batteries and memory cards. There was literally no room at
each makeup station in the trailer so I couldn't use my Anker extended batteries so had to continually change out the Go Pro internal batteries, which kept me running the entire day. First time I had a client want to do a shoot specifically
on a Go Pro, but it made sense, there was no time or budget to setup better looking mirrorless cameras.

Never had a client request a phone yet though.
 
puredrifting said:
Never had a client request a phone yet though.
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I've shot a few pieces on phones recently (in fact I have one in a couple of weeks). Every time it's because the client wants it to look like it is self shot or POV of a kid shooting on their phone which is too hard to recreate with larger camera setups. Especially when the client wants the imperfections have give away its on a phone.
 
As professionals, I always encourage critical thinking.

Everything in life can be about perspectives and misunderstandings, including video production rates.

Here are some considerations:

(1) First and foremost, it is about the client(s). I have freelanced for major networks with low rates and rich & retired entrepreneurs with endless budgets. There is no formula for making a lot of money and a lot of it could happen by circumstance and luck. Just because Apple in Cupertino, California is interested in hiring you doesn't mean you will be paid more than what Bob in the Midwest on some potato field may offer you after previously working 30 years on Wall Street in NYC. The people who pay you are most important and they will vary.

(2) Disposablity. You/we are disposable. Especially in an ever-changing landscape of content creation that is disposable as well. One video after another; more, more, more. Now of course there are exceptions. Not just any individual will be hired for Hollywood or big budget commercials, but for the 99% of freelance content creation, many people can and will do the same job as you. We sometimes hear people say they are hired because they are trusted and do a great job. But let's face it; video production is not overly challenging and complicated. Smart individuals do pick it up quickly (and this is evident with thousands of high-quality YouTubers, even if they have teams helping them).

(3) Barrier to entry (common and obvious reasoning). In regards to NYC...it is a very modern and fast-paced technical city. Video production is not a specialized skill anymore. Back in the day when cameras cost more than houses, regular people did not have access to the equipment so you were paid a specialized rate to operate a specialized piece of equipment. Those days are mostly done.

(4) Change. Many of us are fortunate to receive higher rates from people who appreciate and respect the business, but this can and has changed as new decision-makers take over and are more mindful of budgets. Example: One might have been paid $1K-$3K-$5K to cover a one-day event and provide a video with some highlights (you know...various b-roll, some soundbites, maybe some photos). Today, an employee for the company running the show or even an attendee can grab some clips with a decently capable phone or an Osmo-like device and throw together a 30 second video in free software, which turns out to be more than good enough and serves its purpose well.

(5) Robots. Sooner or later machines will be used to film everything. I know it's not something that's very pleasant to hear, but as cameras improve and there will be days in which we'll be able to change focus and exposure and framing in post (at a much greater level than we currently can, especially with focus when cameras start to use light field technology) there will be no point for the equipment to be operated by humans. The cameras could be mounted everywhere, or flying on wires, or maybe even hovering around humans (and you'll be able to speak with them). And that's not much different to how it currently is at various events/productions. Now you might question that we still need some human emotion and a human touch, but do we really? In a world where we are either attached to machines or becoming machines ourselves, I don't think so.

(6) Talent. Hey, maybe you're just not good enough? Seriously. Maybe you're not worth the $1K-$5K-$10K per day that you're asking for. It goes both ways; we put a value/worth on ourselves and others decide if they agree (and pay).

(7) Expectations...on your kit. Are you including a drone and a jib in that rate? You better be...or some may think.

(8) Type of work. The beauty of video production is that there is so much work out there. You cannot group everything together in the same rate basket.

(9) How you charge. Are you asking for every single penny and more for your time? Maybe you are and maybe you deserve it, but also do expect some people to think you're crazy.

(10) Your communication skills. On the phone. In e-mails. Presentation - grammar - punctuation. (A lot of people in very high-paying jobs cannot write well, but they have these positions because they are able to influence.)

___

There are other factors I'd like to mention...but in conclusion, I think we should all keep an open mind while we encounter and experience various low and high production rates.
 
If you are outside with good GPS, and about 30 to 40 feet away, this will do framing, focus, and positioning by tracker:

https://soloshot.com/

It really works fairly well and with the huge 65x zoom, can really reach out to get you. I haven't done as much as I'd like with it yet, external factors have stopped me for a while.

There is an indoor system from another company that uses three beacons to triangulate between camera and tracker, haven' worked with this yet. There is also MEVO which uses "AI" to track you, but I think it only tracks in 1080 mode because I don't think the base moves. https://shop.movensee.com/en/ https://mevo.com/
 
Its a business and I cannot fault anyone trying to make money, for me, the most interesting issue is the rise of the Cloud Agency. The Cloud agency advertises and hosts a fairy professional website promising worldwide production. The website consists of a number of stock images highlighting their offices worldwide and perhaps 3-4 professionally made video examples. They price their products at perhaps 10%-20% below market rates for a professional video.
Clients are impressed, they are saving money.

The reality is that they subcontract out their office work to home workers who all use Skype ( to save call costs) i.e. their network of worldwide offices do not exist. They then target new guys whose fees are low, the guy shooting usually with budget DSLR's and editing perhaps gets a small fraction of the fee, maybe again 10%.
The shooter is told the shoot will only last 4 hours, hence the low fee (it never does usually a full day).
The cloud agency then pockets the vast majority of the fee for admin paying peanuts to their home office workers as commission and a greatly reduced fee for the shoot/edit.

The problems arise when it comes to the production, the quality is horrific at times, I have seen some howlers and messages from these agencies such as "onboard camera mics are not acceptable;e for interviews" No lights or anything, a camera and maybe a handheld stabiliser and that's it. The reaction from the client is usually disbelief, "how much for that?"

Yet they are in business.
 
puredrifting said:
Never had a client request a phone yet though.
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My clients never specifically request a phone, but they always expect me to have one every time they call me.


I sometimes get NY or L.A. clients who say things like, "Over here we typically get audio guys with gear for $400-$650 per day," after they question the rates I quote them which are $750-$1100 per day for an audio guy. Audio guys around here are typically $750-$1000, and then if I'm hiring and paying them I'll typically add on a $100 upcharge.

I've noticed this weird trend lately where young audio guys (20s to 30s) with lower end gear (say $10-$20k of gear) will be charging higher rates ($900-$1000) then the older audio guys (50s-60s) who have 20-30 years of experience and $50k-$100k of equipment while charging $750-$850 per day. Why on earth would I choose these young chums with less experience and less equipment for a higher rate that I have to pay? The old guys are holding up the booms just fine, and it's not like the young guys are coming in with revolutionary hip ways to record audio; no, they've got inferior equipment. Are these young guys keeping busier with better marketing and networking, are they just lazier and aren't working as much due to their rates, or do I not have a large enough sample size to make a full conclusion on this? I don't know. But it's a weird trend I've noticed. Aside from that, audio technician rates seem to have gone up in the past few years; I used to more easily find techs who would go out for $750, but they're becoming more scarce as I get these $650 for labor and $350 for kit fee quotes.

Not all NY and L.A. clients are like that, though, as I've had many well paying clients from both cities.
 
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Generally speaking, audio guys have been better at sticking to their guns and even raising rates, than on the camera side. Part of my theory, there are less of them and they’re more in-demand than camera guys. Audio guys also don’t seem to be afraid to call other guys and tell them “Here’s what the rates are, stick to them” and to black-ball/shun guys that undercut the market. If we would do that on the camera side, we would all be in a much happier place right now. Unfortunately, the camera world is full of guys that will take out their RED package for a few hundred bucks a day, just to get the work or the guy with only a few grand tied up in a dslr package and only charges $200/day all-in.

I know Atlanta is a high-demand market, right now. One of my friends down there was trying to talk one of my guys up here into moving down. Said he could work almost every day and even with a basic package make at least $750/per.

I think those young guys are taking a page out of the old guys playbook from years ago: Raise your rates and put out the perception that you’re THAT good, because your rates are THAT high.

As bad as camera rates are in some places, audio gear rates are even worse, especially for some of the networks. Their card rates for audio gear is so far beyond insulting, it’s hard to articulate.
 
I am in the middle of a three day shoot in LA, BTS on a decent level commercial for a new high end client. I am not sure what rate the sound mixer for the commercial is getting for the commercial but I know the sound mixer and he works on a lot of network shows, is very good and I am sure he is at least at $1,200.00 plus he has a sizable gear package working. My BTS team has a sound mixer and I know for a fact that the client offered $600.00 for 10 inc a mixer and a boom only, no lavs. I am receiving a wireless hop from production on Ch2 and am using an on camera mic for Ch1 all for b-roll. For our interviews, boom and one wired lav. So $600.00 in LA, I can verify, is true, although this is a low end, low gear requirement shoot. If we had three channels of wireless lavs going and perhaps two boom mics, sound mixer coud get $850.00 - $1,000.00 but that would be rare amount of gear required for BTS/EPK.
 
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