D800 Audio Hiss

Efexone

Efexone

Well-known member
I just picked up a d800 the other week and have been recording audio using the internal mic - which sounds perfectly decent. I recently plugged in my Batt Powered NTG2 via an XLR to 3.5mm cable. In the headphones I heard significant hiss - after loading to the computer, there was hiss in the recorded video as well. Any ideas? anyone run into similar problems? I would usually use my DR-100 for recording "good" audio, but I was hoping the new camera was a more serious effort on part of nikon to allow me to get away with in-camera shotgun audio. I read in other places that the polarity might be reversed as a cause of the issue - I used the same cable on the D7000 and havent experienced hiss on that body. Online topcis for this are lacking, so any help would be appreciated.
 
My experience has been that you can't get good results connecting a balanced line microphone (like your Rode) into an unbalanced input (like the Nikon) with just a physical adapter. You need an XLR adapter with a transformer and/or electronics like the ones made by Juicedlink or Beachtek. Depending on the model, these also give you controllable gain and realtime metering. Or you can use an unbalanced microphone like the Rode Videomic.
 
davidgarth said:
My experience has been that you can't get good results connecting a balanced line microphone (like your Rode) into an unbalanced input (like the Nikon) with just a physical adapter. You need an XLR adapter with a transformer and/or electronics like the ones made by Juicedlink or Beachtek. Depending on the model, these also give you controllable gain and realtime metering. Or you can use an unbalanced microphone like the Rode Videomic.
Click to expand...

Very True - Using my DR-100 as the in-between produced better results.
 
I also have this problem - it is causing real issues as one reason for moving from the D7000 to D800 was being able to use in-camera audio. Eg yesterday I had an interview with 2 participants - using both xlrs on my field recorder - and I was relying on a 'clean' audio take from the camera to record my questions (using a Rode NTG2). It is not so bad it can't be fixed but still. The D7000 audio was not perfect but much better than this.

I have done some tests, and will do some more in our sound studio and post the results. But as far as using an input from a DR-100, Beachtek etc - those output line-level signals so the camera's mic preamps are working less hard. I have pieced together a solution using a Sennheiser IEM receiver (in place of the regular on-camera receiver, which works. You can use the volume dial on the IEM to bring its levels up, and then drop the camera's audio levels down, to eliminate the hiss. But it is a bit too Heath Robinson for my liking. I'd like to be able to plug in my Nikon ME-1 and go.

Anyone else experienced this issue?
 
Hi, I also have the same hiss problem with my new D800, even if I use an external mixer like the Sound Devices Mix Pre-D which has great preamps and a dedicated mic-level output for unbalanced D800 input... The only workaround I've found for the moment is to set up the D800 gain to the minimum (like 3) and the Mix Pre-D mic level to the max.
Do you think this could be fixed by a future firmware update ? I can't believe the D800 audio components are so bad, even comparing to the D7000...
 
I'd like to bump this thread up since this issue has come back to haunt me - I havent had to deal with it since Im always working with a production sound mixer - recently I had to role alone and run a shotgun direct to camera - the hiss just kills. Is it worth testing this reverse polarity fix?

I've also read that this issue is also found in the new D600?
 
I don't think you'll get rid of the D800 hiss without a preamp. Almost always, I record sound to an external recorder and sync with a clapperboard, but the other day I fed my Sound Devices MM-1 preamp directly into my D800 (the D800's audio level set at 1: no pad on the MM-1 line level signal) and all was fine - there was no discernible hiss. Of course, the frequency response of the D800 is probably not very good (there was some detailed analysis of the D7000 in this regard, and I suspect the D800 won't match any external recorder), but this may not matter too much for dialogue only. I would have thought adding a good preamp like the mm-1 between your mic and D800 is a small price to pay (in terms of money and complexity), and has, of course, the benefit of widening mic choice (it provides 48v, and also means you can use low sensitivity mics) and allowing you to control the levels while recording (in fact, at all stages you can just leave the D800 levels - buried in menus - set at 1).
Cheers,
Roland
 
I too have done a number of audio tests on my D800 and I think the problem is very simple: it has an extremely poor signal to noise ratio. If you hit it with plenty of level (I use an external mixer too, via its line output, with the D800's input set at 1), such that the D800's meters are close to peaking, you'll get 'usable' results (at *best*) for dialog. Fidelity (frequency response, distortion etc.), is marginal as well compared to any respectable dedicated audio recorder (or camera with decent audio like my old HVX200). But let the audio level drop back more than a little and you'll be awash in hiss. Unfortunately, there is no solution to this short of a hardware redesign, or I suppose conceivably, a firmware update, but I doubt that.

Signal to noise ratio in any device is an inherently *fixed* thing; no external pre-device will do anything to improve it, no matter how quiet it is. What it means, to put it simply, is that the device (in this case the D800) will *at all times* generate 'x' amount of hiss in its audio recording circuits, *irrespective of* anything else. So, for example, if the maximum input signal level before clipping is 'y' and the (permanent, unchangeable) 'noise floor' is 'z', then the s/n ratio is y minus z. Period. This is true of all audio recorders, no matter how esoteric. The difference then (where noise is concerned) is the 'distance' (in db) between those numbers. 'Quiet' 16-bit recorders have a relatively large margin - noise might be 90 or so db below the clipping point. 'Crap' 16-bit recorders (like the D800s) have a small margin - I'd guess (unscientifically, based on what I hear) that the noise might be only 40 or so db below the clipping point. So with the quality recorder, if your levels are more than a little on the low side (let's say -20 db), you're still ~70 db above the noise floor - which will sound very quiet in almost any imaginable set-dialog circumstances. But do the same on a D800 and (taking my guesswork s/n ratio at face value for now), you're only *20 db* above the noise. And that puppy's gonna hiss like a sumbitch. Crank the signal level up to near-clipping and you'll be 40 db above, which will be...usable. But no better.

So - the real solution, until - and if - Nikon does some kind of fix? Use a decent external recorder. You might get away with the built-in sound if you 'nail' the levels just so, but everyone knows the risks of that on a shooting set. One unexpectedly loud laugh, hand clap, or whatever, and you're cooked. Irretrievably...

IMHO we should remember that this is fundamentally a tricked-out *still camera*. Most people who buy them will use them far more for stills than movies. The movie aspect of this model has greatly improved over previous Nikons, but the sound capability is basically first-generation. They deserve credit for having onboard 16-bit PCM stereo recording, but evidently a respectable s/n ratio wasn't in the plan or budget or both. I'd guess that the entire audio portion of the design, including the built-in mic, comprises no more than $15 worth of parts. You get what you pay for. I'm pretty sure they'll get it better in future models, hopefully a *lot* better, which it will need to be to be actually useful for video professionals, but for now, the cold, hard reality is:

D800 built-in audio sucks.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings...
 
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What about the D600? And has anyone tired an assortment of mics for example powered vs non powered and what about nikons ME-1 mic?
 
Mics won't solve the problem. It's inherent. As I indicated above, hot levels are your best, if only partial, defense. A crap s/n ratio is a crap s/n ratio. Period.
 
I should add that steady-state hiss like the D800 produces is one of the easiest kinds to remove in post with good denoising software like iZotope RX, Digidesign (Avid) DINR, or others. It won't help the cam's other fidelity issues (distortion, limited frequency response - particularly in the low end), but it should reduce the hiss pretty well.

But if at all possible, save yourself the trouble and do second system audio. A live feed from it to the D800 should be fine for quick on-set in-sync playback to a monitor. A little hiss there shouldn't be too bothersome...
 
Its just unfortunate that the audio on this camera is half-assed at best. I'll use the recorder as I've done in the past or just hire out a sound mixer, but that doesn't solve the "run-and-gun" problem. Sure this is really a photo camera but why give us the tools to get good sound (headphone jack, mic input, and on screen levels) but cripple the camera with bad audio electronics. Its a head scratcher.
 
Just bring along a small portable audio recorder like a Zoom H4 or Tascam DR40. Haven't tried either for film sound myself, but I've heard they're ok for dialog, and appear to be spec-wise. If Nikon had included comparable quality audio and connectivity in the D800 it probably would have cost about as much more as a DR40 (~$150), so it's pretty much a wash.

IMO it's not much more of a "head scratcher" than the built-in audio on most laptops, which also pretty much sucks by professional standards (although most are a bit better than the D800). And remember that traditionally, DSLRs (and the non-D SLRs that for decades preceded them) had *no audio capability whatsoever*. Nikon, and other still camera builders, are still in their 'audio-infancy'. It'll keep getting better, just like the video has. On the other hand, putting a pair of XLR inputs on a DSLR will almost certainly require a change in the form factor, and/or make them much more unwieldy...
 
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If using an external audio recorder is the solution, what is a good software application to add the audio to the video in post-processing?

I read that QuickTime Pro can do that but both audio length and video length must match. It doesn't sound like QuickTime Pro provides a way to sync up audio/video.
 
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