D5100: Nikon still needs to get a clue...

ydgmdlu

Veteran
Engadget broke the news that Best Buy was starting to get stock of, and sell, the D5100 on Sunday. I went to a Best Buy store, and while the clerk who oversaw the camera area didn't know about it, and while there was no demo unit on the sales floor, a quick computer search through the store's inventory revealed that there were two units in stock. Another man, who was shopping for a new camera (and looking that the D3100 and the D7000), got one of them. I got the other one, with the intention of returning it later, since there was no demo unit for me to try. With no thorough reviews posted online yet, I thought that I would share the relevant information here. I'm sure that there are a lot of DVXuser readers who are eagerly awaiting the D5100.

What has been briefly discussed by a few other members in other threads is true: There is no manual exposure control. I went through all of the menus, and I checked the user manual. I also double-checked Digital Photography Review's screenshots of the D7000's menus, and sure enough, the setting for manual exposure in video mode is missing in the D5100, based on where it is in the D7000. I understand that aperture can be set, either with a lens that has an aperture ring, or with the camera body's controls before recording. I'm not sure if the camera obeys the manual shutter speed setting; I haven't had much time to play with it, but I'll need to do a motion blur test.

At the very least, the ISO is stuck on auto. Control over aperture and shutter speed are important, but the auto-ISO can still be a deal-breaker because you're ultimately still not in control of the exposure. The camera has an AE-lock button, yes, but (as far as I can tell) you have to keep holding it in order to maintain AE-lock. Once you release it, the camera goes right back to auto-adjusting the ISO. We're back to where we were three years ago with the D90. You can work around this shortcoming, but why would you? In order to get the exposure that you want, you have to point the camera at something, guesstimate the exposure by eye, and hold AE-lock every second that you're recording.

All things considered, this is not just ridiculous; it's unreasonable. Nikon took a huge step forward in the HDSLR realm with the D7000: Excellent image quality even in low light, well-controlled rolling shutter skew, decent H.264 codec, and manual exposure control. As an HDSLR, it was Nikon's first real competitor to Canon's offerings. So being Nikon's newest DSLR, why should the D5100 be a step backward in video functionality? We're talking about a difference that amounts to literally nothing more than a part of the firmware. I was stoked about the prospect of the D7000's video capability in a cheaper body (as I'm sure that many people were), but all of my excitement is gone and turned into frustration.

The final sick joke of it all is the fact that Nikon announced an external microphone accessory that's being marketed mainly for the D5100. Since Nikon has never sold dedicated video equipment in the consumer realm, the microphone is kind of a big deal (even if it proves to be low-quality). Nikon was trying to say that they're serious about DSLR video now. But the shortcomings of the D5100 prove that they're still seriously out of touch. It just reminds me of the total travesty that was the video mode on the D3100. Two steps forward (the D7000), one step back (the D5100). And here I thought that Nikon actually cared about staying competitve with Canon.

The GH2 is still the primary camera for me, but I wanted to recommend the D5100 to a friend as a serious tool for (hobby) videography. He'd buy the camera for taking stills anyway, but I was hoping that he could get his feet wet in filmmaking without a hitch.

P.S. The camera does offer some manual control over audio gain.
 
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On the AE side, look through the menus as on older Nikon stills you can change the behavior of the AE button from hold to lock where one push Holstein the exposre until you push the button again.
 
Thanks for this report. I was looking at the D5100 over the 60D, basically because I like the Nikon color/look (I have the D90) and I was hoping for the D7000's great video with the articulating screen and the price is right as I would only use it for video (love the D90 for stills). I was unable to clarify if it had the D7000's manual movie controls, and on Nikon's site they showed only the D7000 having them in the menu. I thought -maybe the D5100 operates in a different manner. It does - just like the D90. Un believable. I have to eat my words now on some of the things I said in the other D5100 threads.
 
I was planning to buy one of these but if there really is no manual control, it may well be a deal breaker. So even if the command dial is set to M, you set your ISO, shutter speed and aperture and then go into Live View it decided to vary the ISO on its own?

Setting the AE-L button to toggle instead of instantaneous may hopefully be a workaround if this is true.
 
On the AE side, look through the menus as on older Nikon stills you can change the behavior of the AE button from hold to lock where one push Holstein the exposre until you push the button again.

Thanks for the info. I'll take a look into it. But the auto-exposure is still annoying nonetheless.

EDIT: I found the setting to lock the exposure just by pressing the AE-L button, instead of holding it. So now the video mode is less of a face-palm, for what it's worth. I'll test the motion blur tomorrow.

So even if the command dial is set to M, you set your ISO, shutter speed and aperture and then go into Live View it decided to vary the ISO on its own?

Correct. In fact, the first thing that I did after unboxing was set the dial to M.
 
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Auto ISO might also be switchable in the menus as it is on other Nikon DSLRs. Even on the d7000 I believe it defaults in the on position. Give it a look.
 
Auto ISO might also be switchable in the menus as it is on other Nikon DSLRs. Even on the d7000 I believe it defaults in the on position. Give it a look.

I just double-checked all of the settings and verified that the one corresponding to any sort of auto-ISO option was set to "Off," which was apparently the default. (Frankly, I'm not sure what it does anyway. I switched it on to see what would happen, but not only was video not affected; it didn't seem to do anything for a still photo either.) So there is no way to have true manual ISO. You will have to go back to the old AE-L workaround. The purpose of the "Manual movie settings" option in the D7000 menu is specifically to enable manual exposure for video, so clearly the lack of such an option in the D5100 would mean that this camera lacks true manual exposure for video.

Also, I just did a quick test for shutter speed that doesn't rely on motion blur. While in live view, I tried cranking the shutter speed all the way up to 1/4000 and down below 1/10. I did this before entering live view, while in live view, while recording video, and while AE was locked (before and during recording). In all of these cases, there was no effect. The camera seems to have a baked-in (and not precisely known) shutter speed setting for live view and video. It appears to be in the ballpark of 1/60. Thus, I'm pretty sure now that there's not even manual control over shutter speed.
 
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This is very disappointing. I wonder if Nikon will release a firmware upgrade any time in the near future to enable the same D7000 manual exposure option.
 
Thanks for this report. I was looking at the D5100 over the 60D, basically because I like the Nikon color/look (I have the D90) and I was hoping for the D7000's great video with the articulating screen and the price is right as I would only use it for video (love the D90 for stills).
I don't understand why you don't just get rid of your D90 and upgrade to the D7000 (which is meant to be the D90's direct successor), if you can afford it. The D7000 is significantly better than the D90 in every way, especially the image quality. It's been called the best crop sensor camera on the market. (Just look at the DxOMark results!) So why not get the D7000 for both stills and video? On the video side, the only major disadvantage, compared to some other HDSLRs, is the lack of an articulating LCD.

This is very disappointing. I wonder if Nikon will release a firmware upgrade any time in the near future to enable the same D7000 manual exposure option.
I'm confident that it will never happen. The camera companies almost never release firmware updates that add significant functionality to existing products. What Canon did in 2009 and 2010 was (I think) unprecedented, and no other company, besides RED, has since done anything similar. Nikon had over two years to listen to the gripes from the filmmaking community, and watch what competitors were doing, before releasing the D7000, which finally addressed many of the problems. That the video functionality is so crippled on the D5100 shows that they're still stuck in mostly the same mindset from pre-D7000, and there's no reason to think that they'll ever get with the program. If they finally realize that full manual control is a no-brainer for every HDSLR, then they'll more likely just release a new model.
 
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Too bad about the D5100. But again, the D7000 price is so close and functionality is so much better (except for the lcd) that it´s not a brain killer--> go for the D7000.
 
I did a motion blur test just to be sure. I was outdoors and in sunlight this time, rather than indoors with poor lighting, where I was last night. Not only does the camera ignore any manual shutter speed setting, but it auto-adjusts shutter speed as well. Previously, I thought that it was using a baked-in shutter speed for live view and video, but I was wrong. At first, I had my manual Nikkor at f/2, and there was no effect when dialing shutter speed to be faster or slower. Then I stopped-down to f/8, and there was a huge difference in the motion blur. (It looked like 1/30 at that point.) So the camera is prioritizing the auto-shutter over the auto-ISO.
 
Perhaps they're trying to corner the filmmaking market into buying the D7000 instead of the cheaper D5100? It does seem odd that they'd announce an on camera mic and pair it with a DSLR which can't take manual control over its video.

Can you not see what shutter speed is being used on the LCD or does it show you the one you selected but then use its own actual shutter speed for recording?
 
Perhaps they're trying to corner the filmmaking market into buying the D7000 instead of the cheaper D5100?
It doesn't make any sense. For Nikon and Canon (and Sony and Panasonic and Pentax), the primary market for these cameras is hobbyist photographers, not indie filmmakers. So I can't see how their sales would be hurt by duplicating the video features onto the cheaper model. If anything, they could sell more cameras total by attracting customers who want Nikon for video but can't afford the D7000 (there are a lot of those folks here at DVXuser). Canon's sales weren't hurt when they duplicated (and, in some cases, improved) the video features for lower-end models. Since Nikon and Canon have been in fierce rivaly for decades, to the exclusion of the other companies, one would think that Nikon would formulate a robust response to Canon's product strategy. The D5100 is positioned as the answer to the latest Digital Rebels, but by giving short shrift to video, it's really missed the mark.

And let's face it: As good as the D7000 is, it still pales in mind-share (in the DSLR filmmaking world) compared to Canon and Panasonic alternatives. It's not even the best HDSLR. So Nikon is not in any position to "corner the filmmaking market" into anything.

Can you not see what shutter speed is being used on the LCD or does it show you the one you selected but then use its own actual shutter speed for recording?
The latter.
 
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I think it is pretty bad on your part to go to a store a get a camera with the plan just to take it back so. This cost both the store and nikon money so you can play camera reviewer. The story at Nikon rumors is you can set the aperture you just have to do it before you turn on live view. From what I can tell it is a pretty nice camera for $800.

Too many self made "experts" around nowadays. Anybody and everybody becomes a reviewer. Especially using nicknames to identify themselves. The magic of the internet!
 
I found this forum too late... just got my D5100 today... no ISO control for video. Un-freaking-believable.

A few weeks ago, I was just about to buy a D7000 when I saw the 5100 was announced... and I got very jazzed about the articulating screen (which is awesome). But the ISO issue makes it unusable for video... which is a deal-breaker.

Do you think I should return it or wait and see if Nikon will release a firmware update?
 
I found this forum too late... just got my D5100 today... no ISO control for video. Un-freaking-believable.

A few weeks ago, I was just about to buy a D7000 when I saw the 5100 was announced... and I got very jazzed about the articulating screen (which is awesome). But the ISO issue makes it unusable for video... which is a deal-breaker.

Do you think I should return it or wait and see if Nikon will release a firmware update?

If you are using it for video mostly...I would return and trade for the D7000...because while you CAN do all the workarounds, it's a freaking pain (I know from using my D90) The D7000 only has one minor workaround. With the D5100, there are several...as you have seen. Don't wait for a firmware if you are not satisfied with the D5100 (It's your money and you're well within any stores return policy timeframe)
 
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