D5100: manual settings with AF but not MF lenses

R

Radikal

Member
The D5100 is a small step forward from the D7000 in that it has a 1080p 30fps mode (but still only 19 mps), as well as the very helpful articulated LCD. But it is a step backwards in the lack of control of ISO and shutter speed. I chose the D5100, so I have worked out this method of making manual settings on AF lenses (whether they are G or not), but this does not work as easily with MF lenses. Here is the method:

(1) Use custom setting f2 to make the AE-L button sticky. I also find it helpful to set c2 on long to give more time to work.

(2) Put the camera in M mode. Set the ISO, f-stop and shutter speed that you want.

(3) Make sure the camera is in matrix mode (because this is what the Live View Mode will use) and find a scene (I use gray card) that will give you a suggested exposure compensation of 0.

(4) Holding the camera VERY still, shift into LV mode. Wait half a second, and press AE-L. It is very important that the camera doesn't move even the slightest bit before you press AE-L, because any shift could cause a different setting to be chosen by the camera. Works best on a tripod.

(5) Now start recording.

Step 3 does not work with Manual Focus (AI, AIs or Pre-AI lenses) that lack a CPU. The f-stop will be respected of course, but it's hard to know what ISO and shutter the camera is choosing. You can still use AE-L to lock the exposure, you just won't know what settings you locked.

Two other notes: in bright light you will want a netrual density filter--a fader will make things very easy. Finally, to avoid annoying WB shifts use a preset or preferably set
 
Dude, return that camera and buy the D7000. Too much trouble for just 200 bucks.
 
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Or you could just return it and buy a Canon T3i for the same price and not have to deal with the lack of manual video controls. Plus if you have older Nikon AIS lens you can use them with an adapter and they'll meter. I have a GH1 and D3100 & was looking at the d5100 to replace the later, but unless Nikon comes out with a firmware update to provide proper manual controls I think I'll have to go the Canon route...they just have a better handle on the video side at the moment.

BTW: Thanks for the tip to override auto-ISO. I read something similar on CreativeCow for the d3100.
 
One could spend a lot of time debating the merits of different cameras. I have 11 Nikon lenses, so I would have to be nuts to get a Canon. I chose the D5100 after investigating and determining that it is possible to override the auto settings. Unfortunately, this doesn't work with MF/AI lenses that lack a CPU. I wish I knew how the camera determines exposure with these lenses in LV/video mode, since it does not determine any exposure at all when not in LV. It's a bit of a mystery. I only have 2 MF lenses that I would shoot video with, and will probably sell one of them (a 28mm f3.5 PC) in due course so it's not a huge issue.

Buy you are right--it is a VERY bad move by Nikon to cripple manual video controls on the D5100. I doubt they will change this via firmware update. Any firmware hacks for Nikon? I've never heard of one. If there were one, perhaps Nikon would listen.
 
Radikal said:
The D5100 is a small step forward from the D7000 in that it has a 1080p 30fps mode (but still only 19 mps), as well as the very helpful articulated LCD. But it is a step backwards in the lack of control of ISO and shutter speed.
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According to my tests with my D5100, you CAN manually set ISO. Here is the information from the manual concerning the auto ISO sensitivity control:

"If Off is chosen for Auto ISO sensitivity control in P, S, A, and M modes, ISO sensitivity will remain fixed at the value selected by the user (0 54). When On is chosen, ISO sensitivity will automatically be adjusted if optimal exposure can not be achieved at the value selected by the user (ISO sensitivity is adjusted appropriately when the flash is used)."

In aperture priority mode, I was able to preselect an aperture setting, activate Live View, and take both still images and video clips with different ISO settings (chosen without switching out of Live View). Map the ISO setting to the function button on the front of the camera so that you can access ISO within Live View. AEL lock and exposure compensation can also be accessed in Live View.

I have not had a chance to test shutter priority mode. But my sense is that manual shutter control should be possible for video in this mode (if you select shutter speed before activating Live View).
 
It seems to me that the D5100 is pretty bad, video-wise -- maybe sell some lenses and make the D7000 work? D7000 seems to have problems but it does ok.

Or get a T2i and sell your AF Nikon lenses? Or get a GH1 of B&H for $500, which is also a better video camera by quite a lot.

If you don't care too much about video I'm sure the D5100 is pretty nice, but since this is a video forum I assume that you do, probably.
 
pomoville said:
It seems to me that the D5100 is pretty bad, video-wise -- maybe sell some lenses and make the D7000 work? D7000 seems to have problems but it does ok.

Or get a T2i and sell your AF Nikon lenses? Or get a GH1 of B&H for $500, which is also a better video camera by quite a lot.

If you don't care too much about video I'm sure the D5100 is pretty nice, but since this is a video forum I assume that you do, probably.
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Perhaps you should surf over in the Canon forums with the brainwashed Canonophiles. The D5100 makes excellent video. I just shifted to the Nikon from a hacked GH1 (GH13). I was tired of the Lumix's greenish, high-contrast look and terrible high-ISO performance (and banding on highlights, etc.). Is the D5100 a perfect video camera with full manual control? No. There is no perfect DSLR.

I shoot about 60% photo's and 40% video. I owned the D90 previously and missed its picture-taking capabilities (compared to the GH1). Now that Nikon has camera's that are shooting better video, I am happy to own a Nikon again.

BTW, I looked at the D7000. The 24P limitation and fixed LCD screen were deal-breakers for me. After having the nice articulating LCD screen on the GH1, I refuse to go back to a camera with a fixed LCD. And I hate the jerky 24P smear on the fast movement of the sports events that I shoot.
 
I don't doubt that the quality is good, but the control options on the D5100 look pretty bad. The D7000 actually looks like a very nice camera, but from what I've heard there are few limitations which make it less than ideal as a video camera. I use a GH2 and only recently bought a T2i as a second camera -- I don't have any particular preference between the two brands other than that Canon seems to be responding better to the desires of filmmakers, so far. They are a video camera company, though, so I suppose they should know what they're doing.

I had a Nikon D50 for a long time, and it was a nice camera that held up well for a long time.
 
Bikergeek said:
According to my tests with my D5100, you CAN manually set ISO. .
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I'd like to look into this further, but did you see the table on page 108 of the manual? It indicates that aperture can be set in A and M modes prior to entering LV, but that ISO and shutter speed cannot be set. Please take a look at that and let me know what you think. Btw, how do you determine what ISO and shutter speed were used in a video?
 
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Radikal said:
I'd like to look into this further, but did you see the table on page 108 of the manual? It indicates that aperture can be set in A and M modes prior to entering LV, but that ISO and shutter speed cannot be set. Please take a look at that and let me know what you think. Btw, how do you determine what ISO and shutter speed were used in a video?
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In a dark office, I shot both still images and video in aperture priority mode without leaving Live View. I changed between 100 ISO and 1600 ISO. The picture metadata reflects the ISO change. It is obvious in viewing the video that the ISO did change. The ISO 1600 video has much more apparent grain.

Make sure that you check your ISO sensitivity menu carefully. You should select a desired ISO AND shut off auto ISO sensitivity. There are two separate pull-down menu's to achieve this. And then map the ISO sensitivity choice to your function button.
 
pomoville said:
I don't doubt that the quality is good, but the control options on the D5100 look pretty bad. The D7000 actually looks like a very nice camera, but from what I've heard there are few limitations which make it less than ideal as a video camera. I use a GH2 and only recently bought a T2i as a second camera -- I don't have any particular preference between the two brands other than that Canon seems to be responding better to the desires of filmmakers, so far. They are a video camera company, though, so I suppose they should know what they're doing.

I had a Nikon D50 for a long time, and it was a nice camera that held up well for a long time.
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Your opinion of the D5100 is based on the false anecdotal reports from those that don't have the camera or haven't explored its functionality yet. What specific advantages does the T2i have over the D5100? With the Canon, you have to enter a dedicated movie mode to begin recording. The Nikon offers the convenience of movie recording anytime in any mode (including the special effects modes) from Live View via a dedicated video record button (Like the GH1 and GH2).

I verified last night that the D5100 does allow for manual selection of shutter (and ISO) in video mode via shutter priority. The only apparent downside that I can find is that lack of simultaneous manual control over aperture and shutter.
 
Bikergeek said:
In a dark office, I shot both still images and video in aperture priority mode without leaving Live View. I changed between 100 ISO and 1600 ISO. The picture metadata reflects the ISO change. It is obvious in viewing the video that the ISO did change. The ISO 1600 video has much more apparent grain.

Make sure that you check your ISO sensitivity menu carefully. You should select a desired ISO AND shut off auto ISO sensitivity. There are two separate pull-down menu's to achieve this. And then map the ISO sensitivity choice to your function button.
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So with the f-stop fixed, the camera must have been changing the shutter speed to compensate for the increase in ISO from 100 to 1600? Can you tell me what kind of lens you were using (AF or Manual Focus)? I will experiment with this tonight. Thank you for point out.
 
Radikal said:
So with the f-stop fixed, the camera must have been changing the shutter speed to compensate for the increase in ISO from 100 to 1600? Can you tell me what kind of lens you were using (AF or Manual Focus)? I will experiment with this tonight. Thank you for point out.
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That's correct. I was using the AF-S kit lens and the AF-S 55-300 lens.
 
Bikergeek said:
Your opinion of the D5100 is based on the false anecdotal reports from those that don't have the camera or haven't explored its functionality yet. What specific advantages does the T2i have over the D5100? With the Canon, you have to enter a dedicated movie mode to begin recording. The Nikon offers the convenience of movie recording anytime in any mode (including the special effects modes) from Live View via a dedicated video record button (Like the GH1 and GH2).

I verified last night that the D5100 does allow for manual selection of shutter (and ISO) in video mode via shutter priority. The only apparent downside that I can find is that lack of simultaneous manual control over aperture and shutter.
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But shutter priority is a really bad way to shoot video -- presumably, it will leap to generally undesirable frame rates like 1/500 in bright situations, which will make everything look like Saving Private Ryan. And it will shift exposure around when you don't necessarily want it to. You're being sort of unreasonably aggressive, I'm just giving my opinion on whether it's a workable camera for serious video work.
 
But shutter priority is a really bad way to shoot video -- presumably, it will leap to generally undesirable frame rates like 1/500 in bright situations, which will make everything look like Saving Private Ryan. And it will shift exposure around when you don't necessarily want it to. You're being sort of unreasonably aggressive, I'm just giving my opinion on whether it's a workable camera for serious video work.
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But shutter priority is exactly the ability to choose what "shutter speed" you want and the camera will give you the corresponding aperture setting to expose correctly. If that is the case in the D5100 it is a pretty good thing. For me 1/50 is my shutter speed of choice and if have a chance to shoot at that then let the camera choose the correct aperture and I will lock the exposure. I have not been able to play with the D5100 yet so I wouldn't know for sure. This week I will visit Adorama and do some testing.
 
I believe I have found an easier D5100 manual adjustment method:

If you switch the camera to manual mode, you have metering and independent manual control of aperture, ISO, and shutter via the info screen. To adjust shutter, rotate the thumb dial. To adjust aperture/iris, press the exposure compensation button and rotate the thumb dial. To adjust ISO, map the ISO adjustment to the function key and press the function key and spin the thumb dial. When you have the settings you want, press AEL and enter Live View. The settings will hold.

I am still experimenting to see which settings can be adjusted with effect in Live View.

More to follow.
 
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