D-Movie = D-Movie = D-Movie

M

Martin Koch

Well-known member
There's always some uncertainity and wishful thinking every time a new Nikon model with video comes out. Although I see that the data rate hasn't changed a bit I think that maybe somehow Nikon did a miracle in the new model. Wouldn't it be good to get hard facts?

Well I found JPEGsnoop which allows to get all the fine details from JPEG photos or MJPEG video files e.g. you can see the actual Luminance and Chrominance quantisation tables that determine JPEG quality. It's like watching CSI.

I just compared native .avi files from the D90, D300s and D3s. There's not the slightest difference in the quantisation tables of the three cameras. They may have improved the downsampling on the newer cameras but the MJPEG compression quality is identical in all Nikon models.

This is nothing new but I thought it's interesting to see a technical proof.
 
Hmm maybe I should get a D5000 then and sell my D300s just to make a few bucks for gear. Does anyone know if the D5000 skips lines like the D90 does?
 
Tracey Lee said:
Hmm maybe I should get a D5000 then and sell my D300s just to make a few bucks for gear. Does anyone know if the D5000 skips lines like the D90 does?
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The D5000 is the same as the D90 in regard of movie quality. The D300s has a better downsampling (no stair steps) but you can bust the stair steps of the D5000 using the famous Lee Wilson Fix. So it indeed does have little advantage owning the D300s if all you want is filming. Other than obvious built quality, better stills and so on. This is weird but when it comes down to pure D-Movie quality the D300s has no significant advantage and the D3s has only the additional advantage of a (hidden) manual video mode.

Other things that speak for the D300s are the external mic input (although it is sampled at shockingly low 11 kHz) and the arperture mode.
 
Sorry Tracey, I sold my D90 a year ago to make a few bucks for gear and I just can't remember if I had to lock the exposure before each and every recording or only after re-entering LiveView. Anyway do yourself a favor and test a D5000 at a camera shop before you make such a decision.
 
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Wait a couple of weeks. Nikon is about to announce some new cameras.
Tracey Lee said:
Hmm maybe I should get a D5000 then and sell my D300s just to make a few bucks for gear. Does anyone know if the D5000 skips lines like the D90 does?
Click to expand...
 
I have a d5000 and it is the same as the d90, you can lock exposure for as long as you want as long as you dont leave live view. It takes the same video. I like it alot.
 
My understanding is that you can lock, go into live view, go out and in again and exposure will still be locked. You have to either unlock it, or turn the camera off and on to escape.
 
I just ordered a Nikon factory refurb D5000 from Adorama (with 18-55mm VR kit lens, free shipping, & no tax) for $524.

I was ready to buy a D300S but couldn't justify the extra $1000. Same sensor and image processor. Same 720P 24fps. As the thread title aptly states, D-Movie = D-Movie.

Although it's the cheapest selection, the D5000 actually has one advantage over the others for video -- the articulating screen, which should prove handy for low angle shots.
 
what I read over there was Feb 3 Coolpix announcement then the week after more stuff. But that is only a rumor too!!


Jim Klatt said:
According to the Nikon rep.'s interview on NR, it will only be Coolpix cameras that are announced in Feb.
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Guys. The D90 and D5000 is super mushy and looks like SD compared to the D300S and D3S.

The D90 and D5000, If you have fully automatic lenses like the kit lens, you're limited to shooting D-Movie Mode at wide open aperture.

On a side note, I still love my D90 to bits =]
 
BandanaDan said:
Guys. The D90 and D5000 is super mushy and looks like SD compared to the D300S and D3S.
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But how can this be? Are there other secret ingredients in MJPEG compression? The quantisation tables, chroma subsampling and data rate are identical. The source image they start with is better but thats the only thing I can think of.

You seem to have both cameras. Could you please post two frame grabs from the D90 or D5000 and D300s equiped with the same lens of the same well lit scene, shot at the same time? This would be very helpful because seeing is believing! I will apply the Lee Wilson Fix to the frame grab of the D90 and repost it.
 
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Martin Koch said:
But how can this be? Are there other secret ingredients in MJPEG compression? The quantisation tables, chroma subsampling and data rate are identical. The source image they start with is better but thats the only thing I can think of.

You seem to have both cameras. Could you please post two frame grabs from the D90 or D5000 and D300s equiped with the same lens of the same well lit scene, shot at the same time? This would be very helpful because seeing is believing! I will apply the Lee Wilson Fix to the frame grab of the D90 and repost it.
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I've only got the D90 and 7D right here, the D3S is in the studio 60 miles away and I'm too lazy to get access to it.

But I assure you there are huge differences. It's nothing to do with compression. It's the process before that.

Probably the way processor and the debayer algorithm is set. The D90/D5000's is like on a quarter debayer, not to mention some very strong Optical Low Pass Filter going on in the works.
 
BandanaDan said:
I've only got the D90 and 7D right here, the D3S is in the studio 60 miles away and I'm too lazy to get access to it.

But I assure you there are huge differences. It's nothing to do with compression. It's the process before that.

Probably the way processor and the debayer algorithm is set. The D90/D5000's is like on a quarter debayer, not to mention some very strong Optical Low Pass Filter going on in the works.
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Thanks for your experience with the D3s. I believe you. :beer:
I still wished I could see it myself especially a comparison between the D300s and the D90.
No one has ever shown that.
Or the D300s compared to the D3s. I only assume its the same quality but who knows.

By the way I also looked at the quantisation tables of Panasonic GH1 or Pentax K-7 MJPEG files. They show much better compression quality (although only 4:2:0) like 75% (Nikon) to 90%.
I wished the D300s would have these tables built in.
 
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I own the D300s and I can say that it is pretty easy to focus using the LCD. I am thinking also that not having to use the Lee Wilson workaround and also have a SD and CF card slot is worth the extra money. Post production is fast and I don't need to trade out cards since I have both a 16gb SD and 16gb CF card in there.
 
isn't the jello on the D300s and D3s supposed to be improved a lot over the D90 and D5000? also, when you say "the D3s has only the additional advantage of a (hidden) manual video mode" you also have to mention the fact that it is full frame and not dx (along with the low light improvement).
 
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