GH3 Current model roundup: GH3, G6, GX7 and NEW GM1

[M. Gilden]

The G6 is a good value, but the GX7 and GH3 footage look consistently better to me and superior built cameras than the G6. The G6 is not as solid as the build quality of the GH2. You may want to consider demo'ing one if you think build may influence your decision.

I didn't realize the G6 was a lower quality build than the GH2, that's actually pretty interesting and a valid point if true. When you say lower build quality, do we mean like, lower than a Canon Rebel?

Its also interesting that you say the GX7 and GH3 look better than the G6, footage-wise. You may be the first person to tell me that, actually. I heard the G6 resolved more detail than the GH3 due the shared image processor from the GH2 (as opposed to the Sony one that is a bit more moire/aliasing prone in the GH3). The GX7 appears to be a Panasonic-sourced one now, so it is cleaner than the GH3 and, again this is just what I've been told from other people, more on the level of the G6. That seems to be counter intuitive to what you are describing. The problem with the GX7 for me, however, is the complete lack of audio input. I mean, dual system and the lack of built in monitoring is fine... but I DO use the input, even if only to run a cable out of my recorder so the sound is easier to sync (if not usable as-is out of camera already). And I've relied on it quite a few times going solo as well.

You can get a G6 for about $400 on eBay. When I learned that, I pulled the trigger and bought a pair that same day. In addition, if you're coming from the GH2, the G6 uses the same batteries and can actually be used with generic batteries (it shows the meter unlike the GH2). Comparisons of the G6 and GH3 look pretty similar in my opinion, so to me it's a no-brainer. Though I agree with you, there is a serious lack of material online about the G6. It's really a hidden gem!

I like that it uses the same batteries and accessories, I put that on the breakdown in the first post. I didn't realize it doesn't need chipped batteries though! That's super cool, as I happen to own a few off-brand batteries as well that are half chipped (they work at normal voltages but no battery meter).

The lack of material makes it more than a hidden gem though... I don't mind that part, but it also makes it a questionable issue for finding accessories/community support. Everyone's always testing/modding/experimenting with the popular cameras. Some of that stuff is super valuable, but not going on with the G6 so much. :/

For me hands down the GH3 mainly for the 50mbps recording. With this you almost don't need a hack and equals some very high quality video footage in even the most extreme action environments. That is something you may likely never see from the other cameras listed.

True. The numbers don't lie. But at the same time, folks have said the new cams have optimized the amount of detail compressed into the AVCHD codec (I'm guessing that's due to the faster CPU, which is able to now use more complex algorithms in real time compression), and the G6 with a native codec is resolving enough detail to compete with a hacked GH2. This isn't my personal opinion, as I haven't done or even seen any conclusive testing on this, this is just what I've heard from folks who traded in their hacked GH2 for a G6. Its possible that people are just talking trash because they want to feel good about their purchase, but then again- I recall AF100 users saying similar things about the GH2 as well. Just because one camera offers higher bitrates and is more "pro level" doesn't automatically mean it always wins at IQ. I mean, to play devil's advocate here for a moment, Panasonic might have consciously put the high bitrate options on the GH3 not because it produced significantly better video, but simply in order to try and discourage hacking and reverse engineering their code like the GH1 and GH2. What if the G6 really does have a more efficient flavor of the codec, and resolves more detail at the end of the day?

Personally, I'd be skeptical, but I'd love to see someone who actually owns these cameras do some sort of shootout to put this to rest once and for all.

Yeah some of the newer ones having peaking and out of the box may have the illusion of a bit more detail but I would gladly take a video captured with 50mbits where I know it can stay solid as opposed to not knowing if 24mbps will be enough to handle the situation. Since many shoot with vintage lenses or at least with the detail dialed down a bit the whole detail thing is moot anyway.

Ah, so you are saying that the cheaper cameras with their more limited codec might resolve more detail, but fast action won't compress well (therefore the GH3's high bitrate is better, even if it resolves less). Ok, I hear that. Someone should do some stress tests on the G6's compression with motion. Heck, someone should do some tests on the G6 that don't just involve shooting landscapes or fields of grass.

Another major reason to choose the GH3. Film production accessories. Sure maybe with some clever adapting some accessories can be made to work but since the GH3 is aimed more at film making you are more likely to see film related products designed for it. Think the HONU cage for example.

This, might be the greatest reason of all. If the other cameras are not considered "pro enough" to have a following, it will be even harder to find accessories and rigs/cages/etc, not to mention workflow tips, tips, hacks, workarounds, etc. Don't underestimate the value in that- Even with the GH2, I remember having a much harder time finding accessories than a Canon DSLR. It was too obscure, and the G6 will be even more so.

To me having a professional camera means as much flexibility as it does raw image quality. This is one of the things that make professional cameras stand out from consumer cameras. With the GH3 I can do just about anything in any environment and can adapt the camera easily. If I am in a pinch and need to feed audio into the camera I can do so. If I need to shoot 50mbps instead of 24mbps I can do so.

If you are packing light and need peaking without a monitor you can... oh right. Ok, well if you are doing an obscure shoot and need to remotely monitor and man the camera you can... ah. I see. The useful features are really scattered here!

 

[GHKAM]

I didn't realize the G6 was a lower quality build than the GH2, that's actually pretty interesting and a valid point if true. When you say lower build quality, do we mean like, lower than a Canon Rebel?

Its also interesting that you say the GX7 and GH3 look better than the G6, footage-wise. You may be the first person to tell me that, actually. I heard the G6 resolved more detail than the GH3 due the shared image processor from the GH2 (as opposed to the Sony one that is a bit more moire/aliasing prone in the GH3). The GX7 appears to be a Panasonic-sourced one now, so it is cleaner than the GH3 and, again this is just what I've been told from other people, more on the level of the G6. That seems to be counter intuitive to what you are describing. The problem with the GX7 for me, however, is the complete lack of audio input. I mean, dual system and the lack of built in monitoring is fine... but I DO use the input, even if only to run a cable out of my recorder so the sound is easier to sync (if not usable as-is out of camera already). And I've relied on it quite a few times going solo as well.

Yeah, lower than Canon Rebel.. closer to Vivitar, Polaroid, etc. Very toyish. If you've ever handled a Panasonic LX7, it's of that ilk.

The combination of the very light G6 body, mushy buttons and cheap trimmings such as the battery door; it becomes evident it's not a camera for the long haul. I suppose it's how you look at it; the G6 should get you through to the point where getting 4K is a must, but the resale value won't be anything like the GH2. To be fair, the G line is lower than GH and you should adjust your expectations accordingly.

Again, I'm not criticizing the G6 for the sake of it. I think Panasonic makes the best mirrorless/DSLR-type cameras for video and G6 is good for the price, with features ticking all the right boxes; just being honest in my assessment. Also coming from the GH2 myself, I would recommend the G6 based on the tech alone. A Square Trade warranty or similar is a good idea.

As far as differences, just going by what I've seen, not numbers.

 

[kurth]

As a balance, we don't know , cause it hasn't been in the wild sufficient time, if the g6 is less well built than the gh1 and 2. It is quite a bit lighter. As I said , you can look at the positive side of this feature. Coming from a gh1, the battery door isn't any better, or worse. And I'm having no problems with control buttons. The manual focusing of my fd's with the new evf and peaking is soooo much better, that in itself , is worth buying the camera.....at least for 500 dollars.

I am having one problem . For 3 years I've been converting avc 24p files with toast 9 and jes. I've still got fcp 5 running on a ppc g5...and a g4. I really loved that the gh1 had 720p in mov for normal uses. Well, I'm having a problem converting g6 avc 24p with toast. Gonna force me to buy voltaichd. Voltaic converts them beautifully. And I've found the mp4 needs to go thru mpeg slipstream. It also works great but is slowwww, as well as is voltaichd. Is the g6 using an avc standard updated where toast 9 would possibly not convert the files ? Any avchd experts out there ? I did some googling yesterday and will try some other programs but ....the fact that the gh3 shoots in mov is making me start to save my pennies to when it reaches a pricepoint to perk my interest. That by itself is reason to consider the gh3 over the g6.

 

[M. Gilden]

As a balance, we don't know , cause it hasn't been in the wild sufficient time, if the g6 is less well built than the gh1 and 2. It is quite a bit lighter. As I said , you can look at the positive side of this feature. Coming from a gh1, the battery door isn't any better, or worse. And I'm having no problems with control buttons. The manual focusing of my fd's with the new evf and peaking is soooo much better, that in itself , is worth buying the camera.....at least for 500 dollars.

I was actually just on a job last night with my GH2 in an ultralight setup to move silently through a crowd at an event, and was thinking how useful peaking in-body would be. Especially when the camera was fully extended on my monopod, I could not judge the focus from that far away (even if I had an external monitor).

I am having one problem . For 3 years I've been converting avc 24p files with toast 9 and jes. I've still got fcp 5 running on a ppc g5...and a g4. I really loved that the gh1 had 720p in mov for normal uses. Well, I'm having a problem converting g6 avc 24p with toast. Gonna force me to buy voltaichd. Voltaic converts them beautifully. And I've found the mp4 needs to go thru mpeg slipstream. It also works great but is slowwww, as well as is voltaichd. Is the g6 using an avc standard updated where toast 9 would possibly not convert the files ? Any avchd experts out there ? I did some googling yesterday and will try some other programs but ....the fact that the gh3 shoots in mov is making me start to save my pennies to when it reaches a pricepoint to perk my interest. That by itself is reason to consider the gh3 over the g6.

I'd say that alone would be reason to update your workflow! Much easier/cheaper than limiting your hardware based on dated software.

I actually much prefer AVCHD to mov, (I was so happy the day I stopped using Canon DSLR video, and so was my workstation) but I'm using a very different setup than you obviously. Yes, I'm under the impression that the G6 and other new Panasonic cameras are using a newer flavor of the codec, and one that gets better image quality per bitrate than the old one did. Have you tried 5DtoRGB to convert? If you are using a quicktime based editor (which FCP obviously is), you are likely losing color definition due to a bug in the mp4 QT decoder anyway, so I'd give 5DtoRGB a try and make it part of your workflow. I don't use a QT-based editor anymore, but those that do really swear by that app.

 

[kurth]

I'd say that alone would be reason to update your workflow! Much easier/cheaper than limiting your hardware based on dated software.

How do you figure that , when a new mac pro cost 3 grand, and a gh3 cost 900 and voltaichd cost 40 ? I just got tired of giving apple my money at every technological turnpike .

...and 5DtoRGB requires os 10.7 . I'm looking for os 10.4.11 ppc solutions. thanx anyway/k

 

[M. Gilden]

How do you figure that , when a new mac pro cost 3 grand, and a gh3 cost 900 and voltaichd cost 40 ? I just got tired of giving apple my money at every technological turnpike .

...and 5DtoRGB requires os 10.7 . I'm looking for os 10.4.11 ppc solutions. thanx anyway/k

Ah, I see. The problem appears to be the assumption that you need to stick with Apple and additional software to convert footage. I thought the creative world moved past that stereotype years ago!

A cheap PC with Sony Vegas or Premiere Pro will cost less than a new camera, and won't require any additional anything to edit- modern NLEs can load up AVCHD natively and cut like butter. And you'll actually be able to work much faster than your current setup, with shorter rendering times and better real time previews.

To be clear, I'm not saying PC is better than Mac or vice versa (keep that can of worms closed!). I consider myself platform agnostic- I use what works for me. If something is better suited to one platform vs another, I'll switch. If I'm working with a team that required FCP, I'll use that. If I'm on a budget and want the most efficient setup for my money, I'll go PC with PPro and GPU acceleration. Want something that is compatible with everything? I'll go with Sony Vegas (not a codec alive that it hasn't been able to natively edit for me!).
These days, pretty much any computer is capable of more-or-less the same functionality. If you want to limit yourself to a camera because it has better image quality or a feature you can't live without (peaking, HDMI out, etc) I hear that. But to limit yourself because of an admittedly obsolete workflow? But I digress...

 

[kurth]

A cheap pc is not any cheaper than a mac mini, and vegas is even more expensive now than fcpx , so....but I digress.

I do agree about being os agnostic, and I'm using pc's, at least running xp. I was one of those that jumped on the downloading free cs2 bandwagon....( thanx to adobe ) and use this xp machine also for internet and portable computing, as well as premiere and PS. Notebooks are throwaways and apples portables, from my experience, aren't any more robust than a cheap 200 dollar netbook running windows. But I wouldn't jump into premiere now for any amount of money. I'm not into "renting" homes, cars, cameras, or programs. I find this little glitch only a small bump in the road, and so far I'd prefer to get alot more miles for my money out of fcp 5.1 , which btw , far exceeds my needs. I did find that voltaichd does a bangup job of converting the avchd files so I'll probably go that route ...unless I discover another.

 

[M. Gilden]

A cheap pc is not any cheaper than a mac mini, and vegas is even more expensive now than fcpx , so....but I digress.

Spec for spec, a cheap PC is ridiculously cheaper than a Mac mini, but I'm not here to argue details. My own personal experience, everytime I go shopping for a new personal workstation, I consider going back to Mac... believe me, I WANT it to make sense, but it never does.

Also, you can find Vegas pretty cheap... Sony has sales every now and then, and since some Sony cameras come bundled with it you can sometimes find a good deal right here on the forum's marketplace. But hey, if voltaicHD works for you, go with that! Or use the PC version of 5DtoRGB on that XP computer you were talking about, and have a dedicated transcoding workstation (it can write Prores, even on the PC version) for free!

Either way, these cameras all seem like pretty good options. I'm still a bit surprised to hear about the G6 build quality. I mean, these things are $600... that's relatively cheap for a cinema cam, but its not like Vivitar/Polaroid/toy junk camera cheap. I would expect the build quality to be better than a GoPro at that price!

 

[kurth]

Spec for spec, a cheap PC is ridiculously cheaper than a Mac mini, but I'm not here to argue details. My own personal experience, everytime I go shopping for a new personal workstation, I consider going back to Mac... believe me, I WANT it to make sense, but it never does.

Also, you can find Vegas pretty cheap... Sony has sales every now and then, and since some Sony cameras come bundled with it you can sometimes find a good deal right here on the forum's marketplace. But hey, if voltaicHD works for you, go with that! Or use the PC version of 5DtoRGB on that XP computer you were talking about, and have a dedicated transcoding workstation (it can write Prores, even on the PC version) for free!

Either way, these cameras all seem like pretty good options. I'm still a bit surprised to hear about the G6 build quality. I mean, these things are $600... that's relatively cheap for a cinema cam, but its not like Vivitar/Polaroid/toy junk camera cheap. I would expect the build quality to be better than a GoPro at that price!

Yep already downloaded the xp version and will give it a try.....and I thought the vivitar analogy went way too far. I don't find anything cheaper about the g6 , than I did about the 300d rebel I bought 10 years ago for twice as much, and as I said earlier, it does so very much more, it's almost....unbelievable. And they're $600 today, but they'll be back down to 500 soon. Once a floor is established, a manufacturer finds it hard to stay above it. I will be watching out of my left eye as prices drop on the gh3 ....and hopefully my right eye will be watching the gh4k. I wonder if that'll make us happy ? ....probably not ! ....maybe 8k/240p !

 

[Bruce Foreman]

People confuse polymer materials with "cheap build quality" when today's space age polymers are actually pretty tough stuff. Sure, if dropped hard enough they'll crack and chip but will often absorb impact shock enough to protect the "innards".

I wouldn't be the least afraid of the "plastic" G6.

 

[GHKAM]

Yep already downloaded the xp version and will give it a try.....and I thought the vivitar analogy went way too far. I don't find anything cheaper about the g6 , than I did about the 300d rebel I bought 10 years ago for twice as much, and as I said earlier, it does so very much more, it's almost....unbelievable. And they're $600 today, but they'll be back down to 500 soon. Once a floor is established, a manufacturer finds it hard to stay above it. I will be watching out of my left eye as prices drop on the gh3 ....and hopefully my right eye will be watching the gh4k. I wonder if that'll make us happy ? ....probably not ! ....maybe 8k/240p !

People confuse polymer materials with "cheap build quality" when today's space age polymers are actually pretty tough stuff. Sure, if dropped hard enough they'll crack and chip but will often absorb impact shock enough to protect the "innards".

I wouldn't be the least afraid of the "plastic" G6.

I apologize, I may have exaggerated a bit.

I was initially disappointed compared to the GH2. I don't want to discourage anyone from getting a G6, it's a great camera overall.

 

[aonavy]

Ill chime into this thread:

I own the following: Gh1-GH3 and the G6. The G6 build feels about the same as a GH1 if not less. It is light weight and very plasticy feeling, but I will say the image quality is fabulous. You can easily cut footage between the g6,gh3 and a hack gh2 no problem. I like the live streaming of the G6 because it doesnt cut when you hit record like the GH3. I use the G6 on my "movi" setup because its light and has the live streaming. If you want that plasticy feel to go away, wrap it up gaft tape and call it day!

The G6 is a wonderful cam and I've been thinking about picking up another! GH3 is great and Love the feel and how it performs.

 

[Grisnjam]

I am loving my GX7. So compact and really good looking. The tilting EVF and peaking make hand focusing a treat. When paired with a small bag full of fast primes it really shines and the video quality is a touch better then the GH3 even without the all-I mode. All worth having to run dual sound when needed

Here is my newest GX7 peice, shot handheld and hand focused in 1080p@24fps with the Panasonic 14-140mm, 20mm/F1.8 and the Olympus 12mm/F2.0, 45mm/F1.8 and 75mm/F1.8. Colored by Film Convert's Kodak 5207. GoPro Hero3 for Ski bike shots in Protune. Used the S1 Shark slider from iFootage for slides, dollies and jib shots.

 

[Ozpeter]

Hmm. This thread has given me an itch in the wallet. I've stayed with my GH1 since it was first available here in Australia, but the G6 sounds like it would be an upgrade without major expense (I'm a distinctly amateur photographer, but I found the GH1 features appealing).

Anyone care to give an opinion on whether I should think only of a G6 body to go with the original GH1 lens to minimise expense, or are the more recent lenses packaged with the G6 a quality / functional improvement on the GH1 lens (setting aside zoom length)?

 

[estimeh]

g6 is so much better, 1080 60p ....

 

[Ozpeter]

g6 is so much better, 1080 60p ....

Thanks, but any thoughts on their respective kit lenses?

 

[Dan Keeble]

I've just bought a G6, to go with my GH3. Can anyone point me in the direction of a link or two which shows the best video settings for the G6, to compliment the GH3?

 

[kurth]

Thanks, but any thoughts on their respective kit lenses?

get the kit lens....focuses faster, smaller, almost doesn't breathe ...or the 2 lens kit

 

[Ned Kelly]

Hmm. This thread has given me an itch in the wallet. I've stayed with my GH1 since it was first available here in Australia, but the G6 sounds like it would be an upgrade without major expense (I'm a distinctly amateur photographer, but I found the GH1 features appealing).

I'm hearing only positve reports on the g6 from a video point of view, so I'm wondering whether you or others might know if it is PAL friendly ?

 

[GHKAM]

I'm hearing only positve reports on the g6 from a video point of view, so I'm wondering whether you or others might know if it is PAL friendly ?

If you buy a G6 made for a PAL region/country, it will be PAL only (and not NTSC).