current best camera for video and film production?

K

killmaster

Active member
Hi,

I'm on the verge of getting a camera and am a bit overwhelmed by all the changes in the industry and sheer amount of technical considerations. I'm considering the Panasonic af100 and red scarlett (and any other camera this post brings up including still cameras that shoot viable HD). I have many questions:

1) Panasonics sensor on the af100 is huge. What gains do you get like compard with the Scarlet 2/3 " sensor?
2) what other factors determine how good a camera shoots in low light besides the speed of the lens?
3) I can't find any information on the fixed lens that comes with the self contained Scarlet package (for $2700). I found that it is f2.8 but don't know if it has any macro capabiity.
4) So if I get the Scarlet fixed version, I'm assuming this means that I cannot change the lens ever, right? probably an obvious answer here...
5) what post production considerations will the above mentioned cameras have. I edit in Final Cut Pro on a MAC.
6) Obviously, I'm very new to this and any advice regarding best camera for inde filmmaking styled shooting that may end up going to film one day would be very helpful to me.

thanks,

greg
 
Your best bet, as you are "on the verge of buying", is to look for cameras that actually exist. The AF100 will be out late this year, Dec is what i have heard. The Red Scarlet has no open schedule and has been pushed back so many times its ridiculous.
My advise to you is the same as I give to every other beginning filmmaker. Don't worry about getting the best or the most cutting edge camera. Don't worry about the resolution. Get a good, reliable, fully manual camera and Learn how to use all of the controls. Once you have that mastered then move on to a "bigger and better" model.

If you must have HD then a HPX170 is a great camera.
 
killmaster said:
I'm considering the Panasonic af100 and red scarlett
Click to expand...

Both of these cameras won't be available for quite a while ( end of the year for the AF100, and nobody really knows with the RED Scarlett ), so if you want a camera soon then you will have to choose from what's actually on the market now.

Here is how I would approach your problem:

1- What do you want to shoot?

2- What is your budget?

3- Additional Video Gear : Tripod, camera-stabilizer, slider, crane, lights, microphones, field mixer, UHF transmitters, etc... This can cost more than the camera does.

4- What are the camera features that you can't live without?

- Solid-state recording media ( no tapes )
- Low-light performance
- Shallow DOF
- How wide should your lens go ?
- How long should your lens go ?
- Able to shoot long takes ? ( Most DSLRs are limited to 12 minutes max )

...Once you you can answer these questions, you will probably narrow your camera choices down to less than a dozen, and then I would try renting your top choice to see what it's actually like to work with.

For my corporate work I went with the Panasonic HMC-150, which I've been totally happy with, and will add a Canon 5D later this summer for the shallow DOF look. With my current video gear, my HMC-150 cost less than one quarter of my total equipment budget. ( I have spent more on lights, and more on audio gear )

I will probably add the AF100 to my tool kit in 2011, once it's been out for a few months and proven itself. ( will definitely rent before I buy )
 
Starshine Video said:
My advise to you is the same as I give to every other beginning filmmaker. Don't worry about getting the best or the most cutting edge camera. Don't worry about the resolution. Get a good, reliable, fully manual camera and Learn how to use all of the controls. Once you have that mastered then move on to a "bigger and better" model.

If you must have HD then a HPX170 is a great camera.
Click to expand...

Very good advice here.
 
Starshine Video said:
Y Learn how to use all of the controls. Once you have that mastered then move on to a "bigger and better" model.
Click to expand...

Think I know what youre going for in this post but Id say, no matter how someone knows the "controls" wont mean they can shoot. Well they can press REC.
 
Well, I'll be shooting documentaries and short dramatic films and perhaps eventually a feature length dramatic film.

definately good to be reminded of the gear I'll need in addition to the camera. I intend on approaching it with a lot of restrictions. Like the dogma films that were made with limitations. That's why I really need a camera that looks decent in available light

I can't live without tapeless, low light goodness. Can deal with not having more than 12 minute takes and not having shallow depth of field. wider lens the better but can live without it. would rather have good macro. longer lens the better but can live without it. As I can afford I can see getting wide and long primes.

This really helps me think it through and is much appreciated! I'm going to take a look at the HMC-150.

Do you have any thoughts about the Canon T2i (just movies) and using a H2n for starters?


TheDingo said:
Both of these cameras won't be available for quite a while ( end of the year for the AF100, and nobody really knows with the RED Scarlett ), so if you want a camera soon then you will have to choose from what's actually on the market now.

Here is how I would approach your problem:

1- What do you want to shoot?

2- What is your budget?

3- Additional Video Gear : Tripod, camera-stabilizer, slider, crane, lights, microphones, field mixer, UHF transmitters, etc... This can cost more than the camera does.

4- What are the camera features that you can't live without?

- Solid-state recording media ( no tapes )
- Low-light performance
- Shallow DOF
- How wide should your lens go ?
- How long should your lens go ?
- Able to shoot long takes ? ( Most DSLRs are limited to 12 minutes max )

...Once you you can answer these questions, you will probably narrow your camera choices down to less than a dozen, and then I would try renting your top choice to see what it's actually like to work with.

For my corporate work I went with the Panasonic HMC-150, which I've been totally happy with, and will add a Canon 5D later this summer for the shallow DOF look. With my current video gear, my HMC-150 cost less than one quarter of my total equipment budget. ( I have spent more on lights, and more on audio gear )

I will probably add the AF100 to my tool kit in 2011, once it's been out for a few months and proven itself. ( will definitely rent before I buy )
Click to expand...
 
killmaster said:
thanks for the advice. The hpx170 looks great. I was also considering the Canon T2i with an H2n...
Click to expand...


sounds like same situation im in, im getting a hpx170 and a canon 7d w/ H2n.

i got all the accessories lined out for my hpx.

glidetrack
glidecam
nice sachtler fsb6 tripod
pelican 1650 rolling hardcase
jus to name a few
amazing camera
 
killmaster said:
This really helps me think it through and is much appreciated! I'm going to take a look at the HMC-150.
Click to expand...

I was debating between the HPX170 and the HMC150, and went with the HMC150 because of recording media cost. I wanted to be able to shoot for 8+ hours without having to dump my cards.

Assuming your are shooting at 720 24P:

8 hours of SDHC media ( 3 x 32GB SDHC memory cards ) costs less than $300

8 hours of P2 media ( 3 x 64GB ) costs about $2,700

The differences between the HPX170 and the HMC150 aren't huge, though the HPX170 has some nice exclusive features. ( variable frame rate, 4:2:2 color, AVC Intra 100 CODEC )

killmaster said:
Do you have any thoughts about the Canon T2i (just movies) and using a H2n for starters?
Click to expand...

I've played with a friend's T2i, and it can shoot beautiful images, but you need really good camera stabilization to get smooth looking shots. I am looking at a 5D MKII because I want the extra stop of low-light performance, 2 stops of shallower DOF ( DOF at F 2.0 on a T2i / 7D is equal to F 4.0 on the 5D MKII, which is great if you want shallow DOF, and not so great when you want deep DOF )

I owned a Zoom H4 for a year and then got rid of it. ( noisy tracks and crappy pre-amps )

I then bought a Zoom H4n, and returned it a week later. ( less noise but still crappy pre-amps )

I owned a Sony PCM-D50 for a year, which had amazing sound, but only 4GB of memory space, and adding a memory card did not add on to the main memory space, so longer recordings were not possible. So I sold this too.

Now I use an Olympus LS-11, which has great sound, and can run up to 20 hours on just 2AA batteries. You have to use a separate pre-amp for some mics, which I am ok with. ( I use a Sound Devices MixPre when I use XLR mics, which is then fed to the LINE-IN on the Olympus LS-11 )

...As I mentioned before, I would play with the equipment BEFORE you buy anything, to be absolutely sure you are getting what works for you.
 
...One last item: If you do decide to go with the HMC-150, buy the Patriot IRIS SDHC cards for it. These cards are made for pro video work, are very fast, come with a 5 year warranty, and are quite affordable. I am standardizing on the 32GB IRIS cards, which give me 3 hours of best quality footage with the HMC150.

Patriot IRIS 32GB SDHC Cards : $93 at NewEgg.com
 
thanks again TheDingo! Right at the moment, I'm thinking of waiting and in the meantime getting a T2i and Olympus LS-11 and wondering if my ART pro tube pre-amp will suffice ? Also considering the Panasonic HS700 as a waiting alternative. Think I want the Scarlett in the end but not sure if the workflow will be discouragingly complicated. I sort of want a home studio with Final Cut Studio on my mac...
 
killmaster said:
Right at the moment, I'm thinking of waiting and in the meantime getting a T2i and Olympus LS-11
Click to expand...

That would be a good little low cost combo.

killmaster said:
and wondering if my ART pro tube pre-amp will suffice ?
Click to expand...

The Sound Devices MM-1 is a low cost single channel mic-pre amp with headphones amp built-in.

Sound Devices MM-1 Single Channel Portable Microphone Preamp

killmaster said:
Also considering the Panasonic HS700 as a waiting alternative.
Click to expand...

Just got one of these yesterday. It's a great little consumer cam, but there is one issue with the HS700 that really bugs me right now: To use any image gain ( up to 18 dB ) you have to have the lens wide open, which means that the exposure will change more than one stop during a full zoom. There appears to be no way to set the Gain independently from the lens IRIS right now. I hope that this gets fixed with a firmware update, but I am not holding my breath.

killmaster said:
Think I want the Scarlett in the end but not sure if the workflow will be discouragingly complicated. I sort of want a home studio with Final Cut Studio on my mac...
Click to expand...

I personally think that the AF100 will be on the market long before the Scarlett will be, and will likely cost less when configured the same way. ( RED is notoriously slow when it comes to delivering product to the market )
 
Not sure where you're at, but as I've said before: An education is your best investment.

This doesn't necessarily mean school. There are tons of great resorces online for free. The main investment is time.

Why am I bringing this up? Well I heard the OP mention they want a good "low light" camera...which usually means "no light" as in only using available light. If you want good looking video, you should start with a good understanding of lighting. Shallow DOF is nowhere near as important as a well lite scene.

And the best part: You can use those skills with any camera.
 
And there is nothing more important than not overlighting your scene. Which I think is generally the case. I take your point. Lighting video has special considerations. To that, I really did like the way the 5D looks in regard to pulling out a lot of detail everywhere.

I've been making films for over 25 years, 10 of those as a lighting TD so I DO know what I'm after, aesthetically speakaing. Just not the same on the tech. part. And that will take some time!


NextWaveG said:
Not sure where you're at, but as I've said before: An education is your best investment.

This doesn't necessarily mean school. There are tons of great resorces online for free. The main investment is time.

Why am I bringing this up? Well I heard the OP mention they want a good "low light" camera...which usually means "no light" as in only using available light. If you want good looking video, you should start with a good understanding of lighting. Shallow DOF is nowhere near as important as a well lite scene.

And the best part: You can use those skills with any camera.
Click to expand...
 
TheDingo said:
Just got one of these yesterday. It's a great little consumer cam, but there is one issue with the HS700 that really bugs me right now: To use any image gain ( up to 18 dB ) you have to have the lens wide open, which means that the exposure will change more than one stop during a full zoom. There appears to be no way to set the Gain independently from the lens IRIS right now. I hope that this gets fixed with a firmware update, but I am not holding my breath.)
Click to expand...

That does sound lke something that needs to be fixed!

does it have manual audio gain?
does the lens do macro?

overall, the image looks contrasty to me. Not sure what the best term is but I would say it doesn't look like it has much color "dimension" or bit depth or whatever. Might call it latitude? Whereas images I've seen by the 5D seem to have a lot. I do know that something has to give on a camera in that price range :)
 
I'm also curious wether the TM700 requires recording externally to get clean sound? I have some good shotgun and lavelier mics that I'd like to use. The shotgun is XLR. Guess I could get an adapter.
 
killmaster said:
does it have manual audio gain?
Click to expand...

Yes, but keep in mind that every consumer camera has crappy audio pre-amps, which means that you must feed it LINE LEVEL audio and turn the internal pre-amps almost off. I am quite happy adding on a BeachTek passive XLR audio adapter to handle the LINE LEVEL audio input.

killmaster said:
does the lens do macro?
Click to expand...

I haven't checked, but I would expect it would.

killmaster said:
overall, the image looks contrasty to me. Not sure what the best term is but I would say it doesn't look like it has much color "dimension" or bit depth or whatever. Might call it latitude? Whereas images I've seen by the 5D seem to have a lot. I do know that something has to give on a camera in that price range :)
Click to expand...

The image the Panasonic HS700 produces is very nice with a normal contrast range, and you can adjust the image quite a bit with the camera controls.

The Canon 5D MKII has quite a bit of image latitude, but you have to use a custom "Flat" image style to get the most from this. The image you capture this way will look very dull until it's been processed in post.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top