CS5 Launch Event... Ppro silence

M

MagicCat

Well-known member
Probably like many of you, I just watched the big on-line launch event video from Adobe today. They have been touting this on-line launch event for weeks. Wow!! everything looks really great, tons of super exciting capabilities across the board, However, in over a half hour of 5 minute feature promo's for all the new products, they barely even mentioned PPro?? What a marketing disaster!!! IMHO.

Not only that, it now looks like Premiere is no longer included in the Production bundle. You either buy it separately, or if you want it bundled, you have to spend a billion dollars on the entire Adobe Collection???.

What the heck?

David
 
...?

What are you talking about? How did we watch the same event and yet see two totally different things?

CORRECTIONS:

- Premiere Pro was covered quite well, or at least as well as everything else was. I mean, it was only 5 minutes per segment. The big story there is Mercury Playback. All the other updates and fixes and such are listed on the Adobe website.

- Premiere Pro is still included in the Production Premium suite.

- Not a marketing disaster. If anyone ever tells you that Premiere Pro is the keystone Adobe app, they are lying. With Adobe, the big show is Photoshop. After that, it's Acrobat, After Effects, Illustrator, and then way down the list is Premiere. Not to say that they don't do a good job with it, just that it's not the top application. I prefer Premiere Pro (and the CS package in whole) about a million times over FCP, but everyone knows that FCP eats PPro's lunch every day of the week.

BTW - I don't work for Adobe, I'm just countering your point is all. They did mention PPro more than you alluded, and Premiere is included in Production Premium.
 
You are correct here, they did talk about the render engine, and the ability to multi-format edit, so don't take my comment too seriously. I'm an editor and hoped they would give a 5 minute segment to Premiere, that is all. I also realize PS is probably the keystone to Adobe, like tissue is to Kleenex.

I guess I had hoped to learn a little more that what they have been posting about it for the past couple weeks. After all, they kept saying sign up for the launch event to learn more, details and mysteries would be revealed, ETC ETC. Point Blanc, I did not learn anything more about Premiere than what they have already posted.

So be it, Maybe that is all there is to post,... the new engine and 64 bit. I dont want to be-little those improvements as they are a MAJOR overhaul in themselves. I guess I thought this on-line release event would be a little more detailed about all their products. After all, the whole thing was presented in Video form, you would think they would tout what made all that video, No?

That is what I meant by marketing disaster. More appropriately, I should have said a Missed Marketing Opportunity.

That is all.

Dave
 
In my experience most of the improvements from one generation of Premiere to another are incremental, mainly improved interface changes or other minor changes to improve workflow. Lots of little things that are important, but too small to publicize. CS5 has two major changes: 64 bit and Mercury Playback so I think it's good that they're promoting the hell out of that. There's probably a ton of small changes under the hood that's too numerous to list.
 
There are some small changes to Premiere, but the Mercury Playback Engine, coupled with 64-bit, really is amazing. My jaw hit the desk when I watched it tear through multiple 1080 streams -- full-screen -- like they were DV . . . and that was with a chromakey applied to an AVCHD clip. In fact, that's another improvement right there -- Premiere now using Keylight. The chromakey in Premiere up through CS4 was pretty dreadful, but now it's a formidable tool.

One of the coolest enhancements for P2 users is the addition of leveraging the Shot Mark -- which now automatically checks the "Good" box/space in the Media Browser or the Project panel. Makes getting to your circle takes incredibly easy.
 
I think as far as the presentation was concerned, a lot of folks probably felt that their particular app got short changed. But Premiere is just one small chunk of the Adobe family, and there was a lot of ground that needed to be covered... personally I think that the auto-rotoscoping tool in AE and that smart background generating thing in Photoshop were pretty cool and every bit as important to those folks as the Mercury Engine is to us (I've done enough rotoscoping in AE to really be excited about that cool feature).

Plus with HTML5 coming out I think Adobe might be feeling the heat on Flash, so they needed to highlight how integrated and now easy it is for the web folks to use Flash with other aspects of CS. I'm really not surprised by how little play Premiere got.
 
One excellent thing about the new Premiere Pro CS5 is that apparently it is able to export a XML so it can be opened in Final Cut. I read it somewhere on a review and not on the official site, so I am not 100% positive, but I think it's a fact (can any one confirm?). In any case, it's long overdue, but oh well, finally.
 
Im pumped to the max!! So many deep changes it isnt funny. I am all ready to shell out some cash for the Downloadable upgrade. I just flipped a couple of our editors here to Win 7, which operates CS4 wonderfully already. (huge change from XP,... no crashes in 2 weeks straight!! ....that's what I'm talkin' about!!) So with everything in 64 bit land, I expect great things to come.

AE's new overhaul t is warmly welcomed,.... Who needs to key anymore, just Roto??!! :-)

The instant Background fixer in PS will make the "Ken Burns FX" into childs play!!

CS5 is a major improvement over all, IMHO, it is the most substantial upgrade I have seen since Premiere went to Premiere Pro, and probably the most substantial improvement to the entire Adobe Fleet to date.

(now, if they would just bring back Pagemaker... he he.)


David

BTW, I have several machines here with Quadro FX1700's. Man, I hope they will be able to take advantage of the Cuda/Mercury engine. I just shelled out 300 EA for these a few months back,.. used..... If anyone has any hunch's regarding the 1700 running mercury, I would love to hear some feeback.
 
The list I have of "approved" cards are:

• Quadro CX (Windows)
• Quadro FX 3800 (Windows)
• Quadro FX 4800 (Windows and Mac)
• Quadro FX 5800 (Windows)
• GeForce GTX 285 (Windows and Mac)

But I don't have any of those cards and I still saw a VAAAAAAAST improvement in performance. I run a 9800GTX, so I suspect you'll see it, too.
 
David Jimerson said:
The list I have of "approved" cards are:

• Quadro CX (Windows)
• Quadro FX 3800 (Windows)
• Quadro FX 4800 (Windows and Mac)
• Quadro FX 5800 (Windows)
• GeForce GTX 285 (Windows and Mac)

But I don't have any of those cards and I still saw a VAAAAAAAST improvement in performance. I run a 9800GTX, so I suspect you'll see it, too.
Click to expand...
hi david,

ive been a FCP user and this time around im switching from Design premium to the Production Premium so i can have access to PP and AE. the Mercury feature looks to inviting to pass up. my plan is to give them an honest try out. if i like the interfaces then i will buy the needed GPU to get the max or near max performance.

my question to david is...you appear to have had some hands on with CS5? you said you dont have any of the listed compatible cards but you still see a VASSSSST improvement in performance. could you elaborate on that a little bit. my understanding has been that the only performance boost will come with the specific cards. if youve found otherwise id like to hear what youve found out.

im really interested to see a performance "slope" rating how much more or less each of these cards offer. maybe a place like "batefeats" or others will do that once the product is out. for now though what do you think from your experience?

***scapsinger***, your quote "I prefer Premiere Pro (and the CS package in whole) about a million times over FCP, but everyone knows that FCP eats PPro's lunch every day of the week."

i work in FCP but will be buying the Production Premium so i will have AE and PP. could you elaborate what is the good and bad of PP and how your attracted to it over FCP? eats PPro's lunch...is a powerful statement. do you mean in stability? performance? user interface?

thanks to whoever responds!

david
www.davidprobst.com
 
I can't quantify anything; I can only say that what I saw on my system with my card astounded me. There was simply no comparison in CS4 on the same system.

I'm sure some of it has to do, too, with PP CS5 being true 64-bit.
 
@ David Jimerson - the keyer in PPro is Ultra (not Keylight, that's in AE, but available to PPro via Dynamic Link obviously). Just pointing that out so nobody gets confused! :)

Ultra is a great quick-n-easy keyer that left the suite for one generation and is now back and fully integrated. Keylight, on the other hand, is a 3rd party app that is much more robust than Ultra but by no means quick-n-easy. There's also a difference in that Ultra is GPU accelerated wheras AE doesn't have any new acceleration via Mercury.

@ david p - FCP eats PPro's lunch in terms of marketshare. I was forced to learn on FCP 8 or 9 years ago, because that's what was available in the editing bays. But I bought my own PC and put Premiere 6.5 on it and never looked back.

Mainly, the smooth roundtripping between After Effects, Premiere Pro, Encore and Photoshop for EVERYTHING has kept me coming back with each version. I like the Adobe workflow better in general. The user interface and the controls all seem more intuitive for my usage.

I'm a bit of a techie (just a bit, though) so I like to build out my own machines. So for nearly half the cost of a Mac Pro, I'm able to build a real beast of a machine on the Windows OS. Again, it's not for everybody, and there are learning moments that try my resolve, but I've been blessed I suppose to not have ever had any glitches or issues with the software or OS in all my years of custom building. I'm probably in a small percentile, but I'll chalk it up to luck on my part.

I could go more in depth if you need to on the PPro stuff....?
 
Yes, my bad. :) But its controls are pretty much the same as Keylight. Either way, PP's keyer doesn't suck anymore.
 
Thanks David J for the insight. It makes me all the more excited. I too have been editing in premiere since 4.0. I dropped it for a while and went to Avid, I came back around CS2 and like scapesinger here, I never looked back.

I am willing to bet the keyer, Ultra, is a re-tooled version of the old Ultra Key by Serious Magic. Adobe bought them up years ago. SM had some very ingenious programs, including DVRack, which is now called Adobe On-Location. Im super curious to see what they have done with Ultra. It was a rather groundbreaking keying program in itself, especially for the money. I still own a copy among several other Serious Magic Brand software.

Im also glad they dumped the stock keyer. It always has been pretty much worthless except to make edit line mockups.

Thank you again for your generous input here. Im pumped!!


David Walker
 
Guys, I have Adobe CS3 Mater Collection and skipped CS4 for one main reason.

I have a Sony EX3 and want to do BLU-RAY discs and wasn't too impressed with the Encore Menu options.

Can anyone confirm to me that I can do a popup menu with picture buttons like on Commercial BluRay DVDs?

That is the option that would seal an update for me.
 
MagicCat said:
I am willing to bet the keyer, Ultra, is a re-tooled version of the old Ultra Key by Serious Magic.
Click to expand...

Winner winner chicken dinner


Yep, the name "ultra" will be familiar to anyone who used the old Serious Magic tool or the rebranded one that was slipped into CS3 a few years back. It's the same basic tool, just implemented now inside of the PPro application and with some minor improvements.

It's a nice keyer for even some of the worst chroma backdrop setups. it uses a vector algorithm of some sort (as opposed to the strict pixel based algorithm of most every other chroma key tool out there). But as with the old Ultra, some beta testers already reported that it's not a complete cure all (some footage is just beyond hope) and in some cases, there just aren't enough controls for the higher levels of chroma key work. In those cases, it's time for a trip over to AE and Keylight.
 
EIREHotspur said:
Guys, I have Adobe CS3 Mater Collection and skipped CS4 for one main reason.

I have a Sony EX3 and want to do BLU-RAY discs and wasn't too impressed with the Encore Menu options.

Can anyone confirm to me that I can do a popup menu with picture buttons like on Commercial BluRay DVDs?

That is the option that would seal an update for me.
Click to expand...

Popup menus were available in CS4. I know there have been some additional developments to that feature set in CS5 but you'd have to check the Encore CS5 feature list for more info. In general, though, what you are waiting for was available about a year and a half ago (unless I somehow read your question wrong).

There have also been some major updates to the Encore Flash DVD output options, particularly concerning Blu-ray projects.
 
scapsinger said:
...?

What are you talking about? How did we watch the same event and yet see two totally different things?

CORRECTIONS:

- Premiere Pro was covered quite well, or at least as well as everything else was. I mean, it was only 5 minutes per segment. The big story there is Mercury Playback. All the other updates and fixes and such are listed on the Adobe website.

- Premiere Pro is still included in the Production Premium suite.

- Not a marketing disaster. If anyone ever tells you that Premiere Pro is the keystone Adobe app, they are lying. With Adobe, the big show is Photoshop. After that, it's Acrobat, After Effects, Illustrator, and then way down the list is Premiere. Not to say that they don't do a good job with it, just that it's not the top application. I prefer Premiere Pro (and the CS package in whole) about a million times over FCP, but everyone knows that FCP eats PPro's lunch every day of the week.

BTW - I don't work for Adobe, I'm just countering your point is all. They did mention PPro more than you alluded, and Premiere is included in Production Premium.
Click to expand...
Believe it or not Adobes best selling app is........Acrobat....... they actually make more money from Acrobat in a week than Flash (the app, not the player) in a year.

But agreed Premiere is seen as a important area but it is still working hard to overcome the belief that it is a consumer app. Bit by bit though it is gaining ground
 
ciné-ernesto said:
One excellent thing about the new Premiere Pro CS5 is that apparently it is able to export a XML so it can be opened in Final Cut. I read it somewhere on a review and not on the official site, so I am not 100% positive, but I think it's a fact (can any one confirm?). In any case, it's long overdue, but oh well, finally.
Click to expand...
You are right, I have short run through showing the roundtrip from Prem to FCP back to Prem on my site here
http://www.tdepost.com/videos/2010/4/13/premiere-pro-cs5-final-cut-pro-roundtrip.html
 
David Jimerson said:
There are some small changes to Premiere, but the Mercury Playback Engine, coupled with 64-bit, really is amazing. My jaw hit the desk when I watched it tear through multiple 1080 streams -- full-screen -- like they were DV . . . and that was with a chromakey applied to an AVCHD clip. In fact, that's another improvement right there -- Premiere now using Keylight. The chromakey in Premiere up through CS4 was pretty dreadful, but now it's a formidable tool.

One of the coolest enhancements for P2 users is the addition of leveraging the Shot Mark -- which now automatically checks the "Good" box/space in the Media Browser or the Project panel. Makes getting to your circle takes incredibly easy.
Click to expand...
The keyer in Prem is actually Ultra (part of their aquisition of Serious Magic a few years back) it is a super fast RT keyer but not as formidable as Keylight, so there may be situations where you still want to go to AFX via Dynamic Link to use Keylight.
 
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