FS7: Crop mode (centre scan)

Ben Scott said:
I would prefer it did everything it was supposed to properly first but this seems like a nice feature for those that need it.
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Agreed 100%

My list is even smaller after the next firmware it will be just EI NR, menu speed and wfm staying on the whole time. The good news about centre crop is that I expected it to be reserved for the higher end cameras so this bodes well for other features on F5/55 coming down the pipe like NR in EI mode.
 
I haven't read anything about center crop mode. It it also allowed SD output...then I'd be excited. Tried to access the sony link Morgan left but not successful. Guess I'll hope over the Sony Community and see if center crop is a reality..
 
Consider this line of conversation... not that it did occur, but that it could in some cases:

Lead Manager: "We will have a Waveform Monitor Display, correct?"
Lead Engineer: "Unfortunately, no."

M: "Why not!? This is most important!"
E: "Because the CPU we're using will not have the power to display a WFM in all modes."

M: "Ok... unfortunate, but understood. How about this - can it display it EVER?"
E: "Yes, but I don't believe users will like that. Therefore we aren't including the feature at all. Better to not have it, than for it to be limited."

M: "I disagree. I'd rather them have the WFM in SOME modes, than NEVER."
E: "Ok, then. Be sure they understand this and we'll make it work in limited cases."

Again, I'm not saying this is the case with the FS7. But I've personally had conversations that resembled this in the past, in software development. Features that users felt were "half-finished" had actually be slated to be killed altogether, but due to heavy internal lobbying were released - so that at least the users could decide if the compromise was better than nothing at all.
 
That is a chat but If I were making a camera Id suggest that the minimum specs are that the operator can See and Hear what they are recording.

Hear..
Headphones and sound

See
Exposure tool
Focus check

Exposure tools, being RGB wfm and off centre focus check are kind of minimums to make a professional tool functional.

Not being able to see or hear is frankly sub par.
 
So Doug,

if I take a say zeiss 11-110 S16 zoom and PL it to the fs7- do I get an effectively -S16mm -1080p camera with all funkctionalities intact no loss of lowlight etc?

Doug Jensen said:
I brought an error to their attention and they are making a new version. The wheels at a big company move slowly . . .
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Sorry, I've never used a S16 lens in my life so I'd rather not guess how it would work in the real world. I try to stick to stuff that I have actually tried myself after having been burned before by assuming things actually work the way they are supposed to work. Trust, but verify.

And with that said, I can tell you that S-35 PL lenses work fantastic with center crop.
 
I just reported another mistake I noticed in the PDF comparison chart, so don't look for a new version today.
 
icarusfilm said:
if I take a say zeiss 11-110 S16 zoom and PL it to the fs7- do I get an effectively -S16mm -1080p camera with all funkctionalities intact no loss of lowlight etc?
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My understanding is that it's basically the same as zooming in in post - the benefit of doing it in camera being less data and no need to spend time doing it in post. Don't forget the debayering process though - yes you'll have 1920x1080 pixels but after debayer your resolution drops a fair bit - I was never that thrilled with the 2k or HD mode on the RED Epic for that reason - maybe Sony's algorhythm is better I don't know, but you certainly will lose some resolution - and I can't imagine that it would look as sharp as the regular HD mode that is down-sampled from the 4k sensor (but I'm only theorising, could be totally wrong). In terms of light gathering the photosites are the same size so sensitivity should be the same I assume.
Be great to be using a Zeiss 11-110 again for sure - and you can pick that sort of thing up for peanuts now, the S16 market crashed completely. it was really sad to see.
Steve
 
steve phillipps said:
Be great to be using a Zeiss 11-110 again for sure - and you can pick that sort of thing up for peanuts now, the S16 market crashed completely. it was really sad to see.
Steve
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The Black Magic cams have started to increase some of the bottomed prices but still very reasonable. If the resolution is good in Centre crop mode then I think it would be the perfect run and gun mode as you get a wider DOF and lenses can cover larger ranges for the smaller sensor and are usually faster than the bigger brothers.
 
Using 2K(crop) mode on an F5 DEFINITELY results in a softer image. If I normally shoot in 4K, even if I downscale in post, it's noticeably sharper than the native 2k(crop) mode. If one intends to use a mixed 4k/2k(crop) footage in the same sequence, you're gonna have to dumb down the 4k stuff to match because the difference is noticeable. And I can't imagine changing out the OLPF every time I change frame modes.
 
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Do do you mean in crop mode or in general 4k vs 2k?

cuervo said:
Using 2K mode on an F5 DEFINITELY results in a softer image. If I normally shoot in 4K, even if I downscale in post, it's noticeably sharper than the native 2k mode. If one intends to use a mixed 4k/2k footage in the same sequence, you're gonna have to dumb down the 4k stuff to match because the difference is noticeable. And I can't imagine changing out the OLPF every time I change frame modes.
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I think you'd have to compare them head to head. No one can make a claim one way or the other without a proper test. And how do you decide what lens to use on the F5/55/FS7 for the test? The EX3 might be sharper against some crappy SLR lens, but maybe not against a nice PL.
 
It's worth noting that a sensor crop equivalent to a 1:1 1080p scan of the bayer sensor for a 1080p recording is a different animal than a 2k size scan of the bayer sensor for ultimate 1080p delivery.

Speaking in a general sense regarding bayer sensors (red,sony,etc):
When you take a 2k scan and then deliver 1080p, you have two options: crop the 2k image down to 1080p, or scale the 2k image down to 1080p. If you crop, the results are typically going to be superior compared to scaling. The reason being that 2k isn't significantly larger than 1080p, so scaling it minimally down to fit results in a softer image.

If you have trouble visualizing this, take a simple black and white picture of a circle at 100x100 pixels, and scale it to 95x95 pixels. The hard black edges become all fuzzy, because adjacent pixels had to be averaged together to produce the scaled image.

If the Sony sensor pulls a 1080p size crop for 1080p recording, this issue doesn't occur. It's an issue when people record 2k, and scale it to 1080 for client delivery.
 
I can verify that Dennis' results, here, are the same as mine:
http://www.hingsberg.com/index.php/2014/01/f5-f55-center-scan-vs-full-scan/
In my tests, however, I used a canon EF 24-105 f/4 L lens, instead of the Nikon lens dennis used. Not exactly a "crappy DSLR" lens, but, not a $30k PL mount lens, either. I'd venture to say very very few FS7 users are mounting PL lenses on their e-mount cams. Given a fixed f/stop for each capture, the only difference may be a due to a change in focal length to normalize the FOV, however, I think this is pretty small in the zoom range used and would actually work to make the 4K image look worse. In my own mind, it's pretty hard to see how a 1920x1080 pixel format can compete with a 4120x2160 pixel format if both are displayed at 1920x1080. It could be related to the downrezzing algorithms used, but, I'm using Resolve 11, and viewing on a 10-bit FSI display.
 
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In my test comparison that I did a year ago which Cuervo is referring to, I used one fixed lens and moved the camera to preserve the framing. The files can be downloaded quickly from the link if anyone wants to compare them for yourself.

The crop mode does seem ever so slightly softer but its not a huge dealeo.
 
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