Critique my scene file and gamma settings

[HotConductor]

Note: Forgive my happy ignorance.. I was shooting at sunset on the beach. My goal was, and is, to create a setting that is not neutral. Cine-b, v, and spark are the scenes I use daily. I am trying to create a scene file in which the image and color 'pop' and are not flat. Sorry for the + 7 and drs at 3... My handiwork was evident last night on the lcd...


Greetings!

So I'm at the beach with my family... Having a blast shooting all sorts of footage on my HMC150. I made a custom scene file that I am very pleased with, so far...

720/60P
Detail level +7 (crazy right)
V Detail +2
Detail coring +1
Chroma level +3
Master ped 0
A.Iris level 0
DRS 3 (was using it at 2 but I really like the footage I am getting at 3)
Gamma - Cine-like D
Matrix - Cine-like
Skin Tone DTL - off


Please give me feedback on my settings. My goal is to get as close as possible to 'the perfect look' prior to doing (what I hope will be) minor corrections in my NLE.

(Note, I was using Vegas 10 but just purchased CS5 for Christmas and will be moving to Premiere and AE this month...)

What are your thoughts on the various Gamma settings?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts. I have read every page I could find on scene files, so forth, and the only two settings that seem to be DRAMATICALLY different than what was suggested, are the DRS and Detail level settings... which I have bumped up to the max.

Seriously, thank you for your thoughts!

 

[AGMedia]

Reading this made me nauseous. If your goal is to get the worst possible image out of your HMC150 -- you're not too far off -- meaning there's not too much more you could do.

Learn about in-camera digital edge enhancement. +7 detail has the exact same resolution as -7 detail. The only thing you're doing is enhancing the noise. Same for v.detail.

You like the footage you're getting at DRS3?

"Perfect look"... well... no such thing.

My suggestion is to use the default Cine-V -- but lower BOTH the detail and v.detail to -7. That's a good starting place that creates the "panny mojo" people like.

Another good look starting place is the default F3 "Spark" -- but lower the chroma to +2. I also recommend lowering the detail and v.detail levels to -7, but because of the b.press gamma curve the noise from the in-camera edge enhancement is not as apparent.

Cine-D is the noisiest gamma curve. DRS is a noise generating machine. +7 "detail" edge enhancement is sharpening your noise. All three of those together and I can't imagine that you're not horrified.

 

[HotConductor]

Reading this made me nauseous. If your goal is to get the worst possible image out of your HMC150 -- you're not too far off -- meaning there's not too much more you could do.

Learn about in-camera digital edge enhancement. +7 detail has the exact same resolution as -7 detail. The only thing you're doing is enhancing the noise. Same for v.detail.

You like the footage you're getting at DRS3?

"Perfect look"... well... no such thing.

My suggestion is to use the default Cine-V -- but lower BOTH the detail and v.detail to -7. That's a good starting place that creates the "panny mojo" people like.

Another good look starting place is the default F3 "Spark" -- but lower the chroma to +2. I also recommend lowering the detail and v.detail levels to -7, but because of the b.press gamma curve the noise from the in-camera edge enhancement is not as apparent.

Cine-D is the noisiest gamma curve. DRS is a noise generating machine. +7 "detail" edge enhancement is sharpening your noise. All three of those together and I can't imagine that you're not horrified.

Actually your comments reflect alot of the changes I made this morning. Last night I was shooting sunset footage in that surreal light. Those settings made the footage pop right out avoiding post, but in certain parts were very noisy.

The drs is my main issue. I am using it on 1 and really like the hdr look it produces. At 2 & 3 it produces all that noise you mentioned, but it also produces these black shadow borders. I never heard that mentioned on any of the threads.

Why UN sharpen the image? If you want to stick to the 'neutral' image, then why make any adjustments, least of all softening the image... Hmc150 is known for its softer image already.

My current settings after my sunset experiment is...

Detail + 3 (again, please tell me why I would want to soften the image on an already soft camera. Why loose detail before the image hits the avc codec? )

V detail + 1
Detail coring + 1
Chroma + 3
Master ped -2
Drs 1
Gamma - cine-like d

 

[Exact]

Why UN sharpen the image? If you want to stick to the 'neutral' image, then why make any adjustments, least of all softening the image... Hmc150 is known for its softer image already.

You are right than the HMC is one of the softest cameras, but that's not always bad. You can sharpen video in post production, after you've done all your other stuff to it, but it's much harder to remove artefacts that were added by the in-camera sharpening functions and are now baked in to the file. The more you sharpen 'in camera' the harder the AVCHD codec has to work, especially if it's got to encode more noise.

There can be an urge to try to get the absolute sharpest picture possible, but I'm afraid you've picked the wrong camera if that is your main goal.

DRS is something I played with when I first got the camera, just to see what it was like then just like most people I turned it off. Think about it. There is no free lunch when it comes to exposure. That 'extra light' came from boosting the lower lights signals, which also means boosting the noise. Unless you are in an ENG run and gun situation where it's more important to get the shot than the quality of the shot itself then DRS is probably not going to be useful.

 

[HotConductor]

You are right than the HMC is one of the softest cameras, but that's not always bad. You can sharpen video in post production, after you've done all your other stuff to it, but it's much harder to remove artefacts that were added by the in-camera sharpening functions and are now baked in to the file. The more you sharpen 'in camera' the harder the AVCHD codec has to work, especially if it's got to encode more noise.

There can be an urge to try to get the absolute sharpest picture possible, but I'm afraid you've picked the wrong camera if that is your main goal.

DRS is something I played with when I first got the camera, just to see what it was like then just like most people I turned it off. Think about it. There is no free lunch when it comes to exposure. That 'extra light' came from boosting the lower lights signals, which also means boosting the noise. Unless you are in an ENG run and gun situation where it's more important to get the shot than the quality of the shot itself then DRS is probably not going to be useful.

Your comment about the codec having to work harder makes sense. Question... What is your favorite gamma setting?

If scene files are all digital adjustments, wouldn't it be ideal to completely avoid them and do all adjustments in post? Wouldn't that give us the most artifact-free, natural camera image possible? Seems like it would also be the most resourceful use of the codec.

And yes, ofcourse I want the sharpest and most dynamic image possible! But I do not want to destroy my footage prematurely. In working with audio I have no problem using analog preamps to color the sound to my taste, but I don't mean to carry over the same principle. My mistake. I would just like to have an image that needs to be tweaked, rather than heavily processed.

Spark, cine b and cine v are my standby scenes. I haven't used anything custom on gigs that matter. Just messing around at the beach, trying to make a useful 'pop' scene.

 

[Admir]

I've always been a fan of the B press gamma curve. This gamma curve really gets rid of a lot of the noise, but still it looks a lot like the the cine V or D setting...

It also gives you more space to play with the detail settings without getting all that noise that this camera produces really easy...

This in combination with the master pedestal at about minus 4 really gives you IMO a nice picture with nice blacks that stay black and not washed out black. Finally, to give you some color to the whole thing I use the Cine Like mode.