Creative recording tips for a really long shot?

jpastuch said:
On a serious note, I also want to add that I'm still a student...so to me, there is value in buying my own mic and trying to do it with other students...to learn about sound, problems faced when booming, etc. I could simply hire a pro, but what would I learn? In the future, I want to be able to hire a professional and have some idea of what he's doing- so we can collaborate. Rather than just leave it completely up to him and say "well, guess he knows everything"...isn't there value in that?? I'm sure you guys like working with someone who values the obstacles you face and doesn't just expect you to do everything "right"...
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There's also a lot to be said for watching a pro sound guy work and asking questions, although I see where you're coming from and it's certainly another valid way to learn.
Also, for learning in any film production area (DP, sound, editing, ect...) doing those things on your own films helps, but imho it's when you're doing them for another director that you really learn how to be a better director yourself.
 
Gohanto said:
There's also a lot to be said for watching a pro sound guy work and asking questions, although I see where you're coming from and it's certainly another valid way to learn.
Also, for learning in any film production area (DP, sound, editing, ect...) doing those things on your own films helps, but imho it's when you're doing them for another director that you really learn how to be a better director yourself.
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True, but too many of my fellow directing students don't even CONSIDER lighting and sound at all- they just point and shoot (both with camera and mic) and pray for the best. Most of them don't even try to fix their bad audio...so the few that I have worked with made me realize that I need to take some tips from pros and books, but also try to apply these techniques in challenging situations. A lot of the people I go to school with want to direct without realizing why they want to, and what directors do, which is much more than shooting a script. And they also seem to forget that they're in school to learn, and simply want their camera to make everything look amazing without taking chances or taking the time to set things up. I've had people blame bad picture quality on the DVX's capabilities while forgetting that they didn't even light a scene- AT ALL. That's what worries me about HD cams too- so many fellow students use them and simply don't light scenes, saying "you don't have to because it's so good in low light".
 
jpastuch said:
True, but too many of my fellow directing students don't even CONSIDER lighting and sound at all- they just point and shoot (both with camera and mic) and pray for the best. Most of them don't even try to fix their bad audio...so the few that I have worked with made me realize that I need to take some tips from pros and books, but also try to apply these techniques in challenging situations. A lot of the people I go to school with want to direct without realizing why they want to, and what directors do, which is much more than shooting a script. And they also seem to forget that they're in school to learn, and simply want their camera to make everything look amazing without taking chances or taking the time to set things up. I've had people blame bad picture quality on the DVX's capabilities while forgetting that they didn't even light a scene- AT ALL. That's what worries me about HD cams too- so many fellow students use them and simply don't light scenes, saying "you don't have to because it's so good in low light".
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Just to be clear the 6 min static shot I said would Probably be boring, and I still stand by that based on experience. It's not like it hasn't been done before. But you might do it differently and it's just my opinion.

I like j1Clark's assertion that anything that "engages the audience" is "entertainment". Not engaging the audience is pretty much the essence of boredom.

But I digress. Anyway I wasn't putting you down, there is a stage one goes through, maybe it will be your thing to stay there???, where it is a big deal to be "different" and "shocking". I did it, every one I know did it. It is usually in college while your getting exposed to all these new ideas. The catch is that as you learn more you find out that it's pretty much all been done before and what you think will shake up an audience only works for your specific demographic. That's not a reason not to do it and every so often someone comes up with something that is different or not different but really well done. Now if you really start pushing the edges you will look back and smile at where you thought the edge was. My comment was more for old farts like me rather than for you. We can tell you for days that X is not going to work probably because we did it or we saw it done etc. etc. You not going to listen and I don't think you should, YOU might actually get X to work??? But we probably shouldn't waste to much time arguing over the finer points because we are coming at it from two very different experience point in life. Were both right from our perspectives. I didn't mean "phase" as in "they will grow out of it" but more a stage in learning. You start learning from the experts, teachers, books etc. Then you rebel against those rules. In the end you may not follow the "rules" but you understand why they exist and you know which ones you can dump and not make life hell for your self. Practicality enters the picture when you get to the point where you need to eat. Trust fund babies never have to face that issue, everyone else though has to at some point decide if they want to do their art for a living or as a hobby. Film is a pretty expensive art, a poet needs a pencil and some paper, a filmmaker at the very least needs access to a camera and some film/ video tape and some way to finish the film. You also need some kind of distribution if you want anybody to see it, and if you don't what's the point. So at some point engaging an audience does become an issue even if it's only a funder or a grant committee, or your wife.


If every word is important and you can't boom or use a stack of plant mics then you have no real choice but wireless. You can stick the mic in his hair but you will still have to block around the transmitter and cable. Or ADR the whole thing, though that is a royal pain and your going to need to transcribe the actual lines spoken.
 
Yeah, I'm out of that period where I thought jumpcuts were so unbelievably amazing- I don't believe in rebelling just because, but I know what you mean. Who knows how I'll be in the future? I have a certain sense of where I'm going but for me, I have no interest in my film looking like a "Spielberg" or "Hollywood" film or anything- some people want that, I don't. I'll want to work with lots more equipment and professionals in the future (or who knows where cinema could be by then and what I'll be using), but that's not important. I need to work a certain way now to keep going on the path I'm going, so I'm always trying to learn. I just dislike people who deny they have nothing more to learn and simply need to go "all pro" to get into film festivals right away...you want people to see your films, but even if the world consisted of 2 people besides me, I'd still make films for them. The learning is what's important, not impressing people (and yes, people do need to eat including me).

It's true filmmaking is the most "unhappy" art because it's so expensive, but that's getting less and less true. One look at SXSW09 shows a ton of feature films shot for much less than 10 grand. Cameras like the DVX give a lot more independent artists freedom, just look at this board. I always think about that Duplass brothers short film that got into Sundance- the one shot on the DVX with it's on-board mic. Was it the best sound? No. But they made due with what they had, and the idea of artistic freedom in film is what excites me. Sorry if that sounds naive or idealistic, but I believe that nowadays you can take so little with the equipment and still really say something amazing (you just need to learn and think creatively)...I guess that's my point.


NOTE: Also, no, every word won't be important. To me, his ranting will be from silly drunk talk to a sort of ranting about the world- so what he is saying is not as important as his body movements, the buildup from calm to out of control, etc. I do want to the words to be clearly heard, but it doesn't have to be V.O. level clarity- I want to capture the rawness of the performance in the best way possible. If I wind up doing this I'll post the results here.
 
jpastuch said:
NOTE: Also, no, every word won't be important. To me, his ranting will be from silly drunk talk to a sort of ranting about the world- so what he is saying is not as important as his body movements, the buildup from calm to out of control, etc. I do want to the words to be clearly heard, but it doesn't have to be V.O. level clarity- I want to capture the rawness of the performance in the best way possible. If I wind up doing this I'll post the results here.
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In that case I would probably boom it. You likely won't get every word clear but that will add to the raw/ documentary feel.
 
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