DOC: Court Hell: One Filmmaker's Journey

[aurantaurant]

I watched all of them. I liked it. Probably because of the train-wreck factor, but still I found it interesting to watch.

Bro, any good-young filmmaker at your level (which is where I started) has to learn to eat SH*t. That's part of the deal. You just have to learn to eat it. You're gonna deal with people who don't know what they want and part of your job as a person who's trying to make money is to keep them happy. If you would have kept them happy you'd probably still be making money off of them. Instead you lost money because you don't know how to PLAY THE GAME.

I mean no disrespect to you, but you're your own worst enemy.

Even listening to the court case, you lost the case for yourself. Had nothing to do with the judge. The plaintiffs just sounded more believable than you did. Even that last scene where you're arguing with the security guard... man i've been in that situation many many times. You just gotta learn how to talk to people.

I've done jobs like this in the past. Why would you even want to be the copyright holder of those videos? They're lame scenes with wannabe actors. They're not worth anything to anyone else. Why fight for that? Why even care. There's been plenty of circumstances where I've turned over RAW footage because all I cared about was getting paid and keeping the client happy. And so now the work comes to me because I was cool and easy to work with. It's not like I was turning over raw footage from Citizen Kane.

Just think about how all this could have been different if you put in the extra effort to satisfy your client? Yah it wasn't in the contract to include raw footage, but as a person who aspires to make money at this, the only contract you should be concerned with is the one with your own pride. Slash that contract up, because it's holding you back.

I think you're a cool kid and you have a lot of energy and passion, but it's just misdirected. Be an artist man. Make good work and keep the client happy. But you're never going to get anywhere if you can't PLAY THE GAME.

 

[maranfilms]

I watched the entire docu. I thought it was interesting, not so much the story, but the fact your making such a huge deal over this. Im not saying your wrong for it. The thing that seems a bit strange to me is, your thinking about leaving the business over this matter. There's scumbags in every business out there, Politicians being among the biggest of all. I suppose if your gonna let this get to you, you may not be cut out for being self employed. It's certainly not for everyone, and in most cases you need a thick skin to survive. Maybe this is a wake up call, maybe you should get out, maybe you should sell me that ex1, for a good price.lol.

Im just kidding man. It sucks you went through this, but if you dont put it behind you and move on, your gonna end up losing a lot more than what you got sued for. There comes a time when you say to yourself "enough is enough, what the hell was I wasting all this time and money for?" the outcome isn't worth it either way. It's no secret the courts are riddled with incompetent, corrupt judges. There always has been and there always will be. But by putting out this documentary for anything other than filmmaking practice seems like wasted energy that could be spent recouping your losses.

Your still wasting your time trying to convince the users here your not in the wrong. It's really a moot point, Im not sure anyone cares regarldess.
So hang in there, chalk this up as a learning experience, and be thankful it was not for more than it was. get out there a shoot something posative, something to inspire you and not depress you.

 

[gregstrange]

The time and effort you've put into this truly SMALL POTATOES incident is staggering. It betrays the fact that you haven't learned anything. That you react with this much vigor to a set of circumstances that we sole proprietors have to deal with to operate and maintain profitable businesses is frightening. I'm with Maranfilms, maybe this is your wake-up call... maybe you shouldn't be in this business at all. I'd hate to see what would happen if things REALLY didn't go your way. Every agency I've worked for can claim tens of thousands of dollars in loss annually--and this, when they have done everything by the book. I've been screwed out of as much as $6k on a single job. It hurt but I learned from it and moved on. That's business. It's going to happen. As evidenced in your documentary itself, this message board and all the WAR & PEACE-sized posts you write complete with scans of invoices, receipts, etc., your behavior is embarrassingly obsessive. The longer and larger this message board gets, the more you come off looking like the guy who ends up strolling into the local McDonalds ready to pump 9mm slugs into everyone in sight because you just got taken for a few $G's on a job. Dude, listen to everyone on this forum:

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, GET OVER IT.

 

[adamr316]

Is your time is worth nothing? Does it bother you that if that even if justice is ever served, nobody will really care except for you? I think a documentary is the wrong forum.

Some things aren't worth fighting over. Not worth the time.

As far as how I'd change the documentary? The problem is the subject matter of the doc. Your project is right about as interesting as watching a colon cleansing infomercial. I just don't really care and you haven't created a compelling hook. Based on what happened, you simply can't!

To me, your story plays like Little Billy Bobby stole my cookie money, and I really wanted cookies, but I couldn't buy any so I was sad! I told his dad but his dad snickered and said, "Little Billy Bobby shared one of those ill-gotten cookies with me, and it was a fine cookie." So I went home and cried. Those cookies would have been yummy!

Just move on..

I appreciate your comments.

 

[adamr316]

I watched all of them. I liked it. Probably because of the train-wreck factor, but still I found it interesting to watch.

Bro, any good-young filmmaker at your level (which is where I started) has to learn to eat SH*t. That's part of the deal. You just have to learn to eat it. You're gonna deal with people who don't know what they want and part of your job as a person who's trying to make money is to keep them happy. If you would have kept them happy you'd probably still be making money off of them. Instead you lost money because you don't know how to PLAY THE GAME.

I mean no disrespect to you, but you're your own worst enemy.

Even listening to the court case, you lost the case for yourself. Had nothing to do with the judge. The plaintiffs just sounded more believable than you did. Even that last scene where you're arguing with the security guard... man i've been in that situation many many times. You just gotta learn how to talk to people.

I've done jobs like this in the past. Why would you even want to be the copyright holder of those videos? They're lame scenes with wannabe actors. They're not worth anything to anyone else. Why fight for that? Why even care. There's been plenty of circumstances where I've turned over RAW footage because all I cared about was getting paid and keeping the client happy. And so now the work comes to me because I was cool and easy to work with. It's not like I was turning over raw footage from Citizen Kane.

Just think about how all this could have been different if you put in the extra effort to satisfy your client? Yah it wasn't in the contract to include raw footage, but as a person who aspires to make money at this, the only contract you should be concerned with is the one with your own pride. Slash that contract up, because it's holding you back.

I think you're a cool kid and you have a lot of energy and passion, but it's just misdirected. Be an artist man. Make good work and keep the client happy. But you're never going to get anywhere if you can't PLAY THE GAME.

Thank you, this was good constructive criticism!

The raw footage was turned over to them. These people were never happy...period. I kept giving them more freebies. When I finally put my foot down that I wouldn't give any more services without additional money I went from being their good friend/business partner to a jerk who needed to be dealt with. In all the clients I've ever worked with, never has this happened. There was no satisfying them...I'm sure you know people like this.

The copyright issue was because I specifically told them do not get another editor to do the job until after the manner has been settled in court. Legally I am in the right because there wasn't a work-for-hire clause in the contract. Look up CCNV v. Reid, a Supreme Court case that was about a similar situation. They told me they'd be editing the raw footage in-house which I was fine with the company's owner working on it and then they wind up hiring someone outside the business and wanted me to foot the bill. That I did not approve.

My biggest regret by far was that I should have contacted the clients directly and sent them their DVDs. The same ones the company had but were not happy with and said weren't final. It became too personal between myself and the company when the fight almost broke out. Contacting the clients went strictly against the contract (no contact with clients outside production dates), which could have been used against me in court. Guess who sent me a Facebook friend request about a month after the appeals trial? One of the parents....

Also, I've been in that situation with police as well. I am normally very respectful but having to deal with the local government really got to me this past year. The government is great until you need their help with something. Then they are slow or don't follow the law and you have to call twenty different people to talk to someone who knows the rules.

 

[adamr316]

I watched the entire docu. I thought it was interesting, not so much the story, but the fact your making such a huge deal over this. Im not saying your wrong for it. The thing that seems a bit strange to me is, your thinking about leaving the business over this matter. There's scumbags in every business out there, Politicians being among the biggest of all. I suppose if your gonna let this get to you, you may not be cut out for being self employed. It's certainly not for everyone, and in most cases you need a thick skin to survive. Maybe this is a wake up call, maybe you should get out, maybe you should sell me that ex1, for a good price.lol.

Im just kidding man. It sucks you went through this, but if you dont put it behind you and move on, your gonna end up losing a lot more than what you got sued for. There comes a time when you say to yourself "enough is enough, what the hell was I wasting all this time and money for?" the outcome isn't worth it either way. It's no secret the courts are riddled with incompetent, corrupt judges. There always has been and there always will be. But by putting out this documentary for anything other than filmmaking practice seems like wasted energy that could be spent recouping your losses.

Your still wasting your time trying to convince the users here your not in the wrong. It's really a moot point, Im not sure anyone cares regarldess.
So hang in there, chalk this up as a learning experience, and be thankful it was not for more than it was. get out there a shoot something posative, something to inspire you and not depress you.

Thanks for your comments, I had a nice little laugh there about the EX1!

Yeah, this is behind me now. When you find out that the judges who heard your case preside mostly over traffic and family law cases instead of business contract law it all makes sense. And then when one of them lets a drunk driver off the hook due to a technicality then it really gets to you. Had I not put the time into making this, even if nobody likes it/cares, it would still probably be eating at me. It really was eating at me though and it really has turned my interests towards the judicial system. I'm looking at getting a job with judicial watch type organizations so it wasn't all bad. It was quite an eye opening experience. And if I can get that judicial accountability bill passed then the citizens of my state will be all the better.

Losses have already been recouped this was all done in my free time. It would have been up here a lot sooner if it hadn't. If I can help ONE filmmaker out there avoid my situation I feel time making it was not wasted.

Positive shoot? I'm on it. Back to comedy skits for my free time hobby stuff after this garbage chapter of my life.

 

[adamr316]

The time and effort you've put into this truly SMALL POTATOES incident is staggering. It betrays the fact that you haven't learned anything. That you react with this much vigor to a set of circumstances that we sole proprietors have to deal with to operate and maintain profitable businesses is frightening. I'm with Maranfilms, maybe this is your wake-up call... maybe you shouldn't be in this business at all. I'd hate to see what would happen if things REALLY didn't go your way. Every agency I've worked for can claim tens of thousands of dollars in loss annually--and this, when they have done everything by the book. I've been screwed out of as much as $6k on a single job. It hurt but I learned from it and moved on. That's business. It's going to happen. As evidenced in your documentary itself, this message board and all the WAR & PEACE-sized posts you write complete with scans of invoices, receipts, etc., your behavior is embarrassingly obsessive. The longer and larger this message board gets, the more you come off looking like the guy who ends up strolling into the local McDonalds ready to pump 9mm slugs into everyone in sight because you just got taken for a few $G's on a job. Dude, listen to everyone on this forum:

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, GET OVER IT.

I appreciate your comments.

 

[simonpwood]

I looked at most of this.

From the 'story' point of view the documentary was much ado about nothing; as it was a personal story you might not have seen that when you made it. It was more interesting in so far as someone else here said it was like watching a train-wreck; it was entertaining for all the wrong reasons.

From a technical point of view it was pretty good though, I mean it felt like a daytime documentary you would see on a reality TV station or something. So what I'm saying is the format was good (but just not the story). So it was not a waste of time as I'm sure you learned a good deal putting it together, and when you find a good story in the future to document I'm sure you'll do a good job on it.

I concur with what everyone else has said; move on and forget about it. You have to choose your battles, and only choose the ones where you have something to gain.

 

[Patryk_Rebisz]

Unlike most others i would say to yes, use it as a lesson but not that justice and justice system are not the same thing, or democracy and democratic system are very different or capitalism and capitalistic system are totally different but rather in managing how how to clearly deliver your point. Your doc is all over the place because you can't decided if you want to make it personal (here i'am screwed by the system) or global (the justice system is screwed). Those are two very different points that require very different approaches to deliver the point. Not only that the general audience changes drastically (even though the thesis of the project seems similar) in the first the audience is really limited as it's too personal for anyone other than your friends and family (and maybe some forum members) to care while the other touches on much broader spectrum that most people can relate to. In that sense maybe you should scrap the doc but keep the genesis of the thread and just do a good documentary about the injustice of the justice system, that way not only your ego is fulfilled but also you deliver something that can be of value to public at large.

 

[male_man]

I have a few lawyer friends, and they say *it's not what makes sense but what you can prove* that matters. If you would have stuck with the provable facts(evidence) I think you would have won. I also agree with everybody else, you have to pick your battles.