Correctly connecting wireless to Sound Devices 302 and from it outputting to Zoom H4n

M

MarxWays

Member
I recently bought a Sound Devices 302 and I am trying to figure out how to connect everyting correctly.

First of all, should I choose line or mic input on the 302 when connecting my wireless Sennheiser ew100 g3 receiver? What difference would it make? I would think line is correct because the Sennheiser system preamp is already being used.. Confusing me is reading Dean Miles book "Location Audio: Simplified" where he tells you to set your input on mixers for wireless receivers to mic.



And second. When outputting to the Zoom H4n from what I understand, you should not use the xlr inputs because it will trigger the zoom's preamp and use loose the reason for using a 302 in the first place.

I should instead use a 1/4¨ jack plug. Would two of these do it?
http://www.soundexposure.com/store/Exposure-PAK-1301.html#a21_2d1021

And then I put on the tone generator on the 302 which is showing 0dbu and on the Zoom I would calibrate it to -20db?


Another alternative is using a Tascam DR-100, which you can switch between line and mic import. Can use my xlr breakaway cable in that case?


thanks,
marcus​
 
As I recall, the 1/4" inputs on the H4n are unbalanced and -10dB (nominal) or there abouts.. AND will not handle peaks above +2dBu, likely distorting occasionally with typical +4dB nominal program material, as the 302's XLRs can output peaks to +20dBu. However the 302's XLR outputs can be attenuated internally via the software settings... or.. the unbalanced 'Tape out' connector can be used, which would also work well.. one would need a cable w/ a 'TA3' (aka, mini XLR) to two unbalanced 1/4" plugs though.
The bad news is, ether way, the signal still goes through the 'less than pristine' H4n preamps.. though it's allegedly cleaner than a mic direct.
 
Last edited:
Rick R said:
As I recall, the 1/4" inputs on the H4n are unbalanced and -10dB (nominal) or there abouts.. AND will not handle peaks above +2dBu, likely distorting occasionally with typical +4dB nominal program material, as the 302's XLRs can output peaks to +20dBu. However the 302's XLR outputs can be attenuated internally via the software settings... or.. the unbalanced 'Tape out' connector can be used, which would also work well.. one would need a cable w/ a 'TA3' (aka, mini XLR) to two unbalanced 1/4" plugs though.
The bad news is, ether way, the signal still goes through the 'less than pristine' H4n preamps.. though it's allegedly cleaner than a mic direct.
Click to expand...

But if the signal still goes through the Zoom preamps, is there any reason to use 1/4'' inputs instead of XLR?
What about the Tascam DR-100?
 
The 1/4" inputs driven by the 302 tape outputs with a set of variable pads set to around 15dB. Which leaves the 302 XLR outputs free to snake or wireless hop feed your camera.
 
Last edited:
But I still don't completely understand if using the xlr or 1/4'' inputs on the H4n matters?
Any difference with the Trascam DR-100?
 
"But I still don't completely understand if using the xlr or 1/4'' inputs on the H4n matters?"
- The SD302 (and other high quality preamp/mixers) have much more 'clean gain' than the anemic H4n, that requires less gain needed on the recorder... equals less noise. This is especially important with low output mics.

"Any difference with the Trascam DR-100?"
- Compared to the H4n, the DR-100mkII is a better recorder all around IMO. Don't know if the line input goes through the preamp though. I've queried Tascam about this (DR-100 & 40) but they ain't say'n and I have not seen a schematic either to see for myself. In my personal tests, the DR-40 sounds pretty much identical to my SD 744 in line mode. (all input parameters being equal) I suspect the DR-100mkII would be the same.
The more expensive multi-trk DR-680 does bypass the preamps in line mode.
 
Rick R said:
"But I still don't completely understand if using the xlr or 1/4'' inputs on the H4n matters?"
- The SD302 (and other high quality preamp/mixers) have much more 'clean gain' than the anemic H4n, that requires less gain needed on the recorder... equals less noise. This is especially important with low output mics.

"Any difference with the Trascam DR-100?"
- Compared to the H4n, the DR-100mkII is a better recorder all around IMO. Don't know if the line input goes through the preamp though. I've queried Tascam about this (DR-100 & 40) but they ain't say'n and I have not seen a schematic either to see for myself. In my personal tests, the DR-40 sounds pretty much identical to my SD 744 in line mode. (all input parameters being equal) I suspect the DR-100mkII would be the same.
The more expensive multi-trk DR-680 does bypass the preamps in line mode.
Click to expand...

Okay, so connecting the SD 302 (with xlr) to a Tascam DR-100 is a better choice?
 
IMO, a better choice than the H4n.
Note: The DR-100mkII accepts +4dB input via a switchable mic/line XLR, the original DR-100 only accepts unbalanced -10dB line level through a 1/8" mini jack.. as I recall.
 
What kind of peak meter scale is on the dr-40? And what would you calibrate tone at unity? With the set-up menus on the 302, the output levels can only be attenuated, and the make up would inevitably be through gaining the tascam's preamps.

I know the little arrow notch is on -12db on the tascams. And after calibrating my 302 to match the meters, sending tone arrives just a few ticks below this, at -20db which one would expect. However I have found that recording hovering around the -20 mark results in the most feint little wave forms and an impending noise floor, either from the recorder itself or from stuff I can't hear if te return matches the monitor levels of listening to my mixers channels directly.

So would you adjust the input gain on the Tascam recorders to sit at -12 when sending tone? Considering that sending tone at full scale on the 302 would then cause the Tascam to clip at these recording levels, wouldn't I be setting myself up to clip if I matched unity on my mixer to -12? (I'd need to record at least -8db less in order to "lock out" the possibility of analog clipping on the Tascam.) And you think setting the limiter at on the mixer +4 would still catch everything without sounding too squashed? Probably a good range for most broadcast and internet, no?
 
Last edited:
MarxWays said:
First of all, should I choose line or mic input on the 302 when connecting my wireless Sennheiser ew100 g3 receiver? What difference would it make? I would think line is correct because the Sennheiser system preamp is already being used.. Confusing me is reading Dean Miles book "Location Audio: Simplified" where he tells you to set your input on mixers for wireless receivers to mic.
Click to expand...

Dean is correct. The G3 unit is a wireless microphone input. It's not a wireless line input. It has good amplification though, and can go to -10dB (consumer line) but can't do +4dB (professional line).

MarxWays said:
And second. When outputting to the Zoom H4n from what I understand, you should not use the xlr inputs because it will trigger the zoom's preamp and use loose the reason for using a 302 in the first place.

I should instead use a 1/4¨ jack plug.
Click to expand...

The argument for using XLR is the argument for balanced cables in the first place -- noise immunity. If you use an unbalanced line (1/4" plug), the line is basically an antenna and can pick up any RF noise in the area, like RF from noisy ballasts in fluorescent or HMI lights.

You use very little of the H4n's preamps if you use tone from the 302 to set levels in the H4n. This is called "gain staging" and you might want to do a search on the term. Very useful technique.

MarxWays said:
And then I put on the tone generator on the 302 which is showing 0dbu and on the Zoom I would calibrate it to -20db?
Click to expand...

Yes. The 302 has 20dB of headroom. That is, it can give you +20dBfs before it clips. The downstream device may well clip at 0dBfs. So you set the downstream device to -20dBfs, set the 302's limiters to +20dBfs, and you can't clip.

Set up like this, you'll want to be recording with the 302 showing peaks just in the red on the 302, around +10dBfs. This makes it easy to see on the 302 while providing good S/N ratio from the downstream recorder. It also makes the downstream recorder "set it and forget it" as you can run everything from the mixer. Which is the main reason to do this.
​
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top