correct way to sandbag a c-stand?

[Bruce Watson]

This sounds horribly naive, but what's the industry standard way to sandbag a c-stand?

What I've read is that you should bag the longest highest leg, because that will keep the sandbag off the ground so the leg carries all the weight. I get that.... but wait. Isn't the longest leg supposed to be under the load? If I've got a grip arm out 40" or so, with a flag attached, the c-stand is off balance (which is why I want to sandbag it). I'm thinking the longest leg would be directly under the grip arm, because this will make it harder to tip over. But putting the bag on the same side as the load... I would have thought that you'd want to put the bag on the side opposite of the load, to keep the center of gravity as close to the riser as you can.

So clearly, I need a c-stand lesson or two. Oddly, I've been googling around and not finding anything out about this. Must be to elementary to teach. Sigh...

Example: You've got a flag out at the end of a grip arm that's horizontal to the ground. What's the best practice for which legs go where (relative to the grip arm), and where's the sandbag(s) used?

 

[Patryk_Rebisz]

Basic physics. The leg opposite of your extended arm and make sure the sand doesn't touch the ground (if needed to wrap the bag around the stem.

 

[Barry_Green]

I like to put the highest leg facing away from the load, so it can carry the weight, but not 180 degrees away from the load. I position one leg toward the load so that the stand's weight is directly supported by a leg, and then I put the sandbag on the highest leg facing opposite of the weight.

 

[J Davis]

sand bag on highest leg and leg should be placed on the same side as the arm/load

edit: the tipping fulcrum is not the base of the stand, its the end of the leg under the load

 

[Lenilenapi]

Bruce, I'm afraid you have wandered into one of the greatest debates since "which came first the chicken or the egg", "socialism vs capitalism", "Buttman vs Legman" and so on. Frankly there is no right answer. I was taught the first way - on the high leg on opposite side of load, but have seen many experienced gaffers do the opposite. There is a good argument either way. Someone should do a series of double blind C stand stress tests and settle it once and for all. This could be your chance for fame.

Either way Patryk is right - don't let the sandbag touch the floor and don't let it leak in the talents living room.

lenny

 

[J Davis]

the reason gaffers place it under the load is to get it closer to the fulcrum, placing it opposite moves the weight further from the fulcrum

 

[Patryk_Rebisz]

the reason gaffers place it under the load is to get it closer to the fulcrum, placing it opposite moves the weight further from the fulcrum

That makes no sense, so care to add why that would make sense versus basic physics?

 

[Moseph]

Usually I wrap the bag around the riser so that the weight is behind the high leg.

 

[hscully]

I was taught highest leg inside as J Davis describes. If I need to I'll add another on the outside.

 

[Paul F]

Originally Posted by J Davis
the reason gaffers place it under the load is to get it closer to the fulcrum, placing it opposite moves the weight further from the fulcrum

I was taught highest leg inside as J Davis describes. If I need to I'll add another on the outside.

If you put it on the outside first, you may not need a second one.

I'd like to understand the reason to have the bag close to the fulcrum. I don't follow that, but I do see a reason it goes on the load side.

it makes sense to have the leg in line with the load, to give it it's best lever, and then having done that, putting a bag on one of the other legs does leave the bag offset from the load, so if you were to put a bag on a back leg, you'd want to put one on both, to keep the bagging even relative to the load. So putting the bag first on the load side does have merit, but really, the bag should be centered and as far away from the fulcrum as possible. This would mean wrapping it around the post (on the high leg which is facing the load) and facing away from the load would give the most lever and the best balance.

[edit] Moseph has it right.

 

[Josh Bass]

Ive also seen the pro grips on my shoots do high leg under load and bag that leg as well.

Ps knucles should always be tightened toward load so if arm pulls down, its tightening, not loosening.

 

[Fratis]

First and foremost Gaffers shouldnt be bagging c-stands. Grips use c-stands. Now if i could only stop touching stuff and trust the guys id be happy to follow this.

J Davis is correct. It isnt one of those "no right answers" situations. Think about it. The stand has 3 legs. I you place the bag on the leg directly opposite the load then you are placing the stand incorrectly to begin with. There should always be a leg under any offset. If you place the stand with the longest leg on the opposite side then the stand can fall towards the arm even if bagged. I have seen this. The C-stand is a great device but also an example that its not a perfect world. Weve all been in the situation where getting a c-stand to work in tight quarters just doesn't work well. If you think bagging the leg at the base of stand riser is not enough to safely hold the arm then put another one on. If that doesnt seem good then you are using the wrong stand. This is assuming there are no obstructions like couches or beds that can be a pain if there is no room underneath. Most shot bags can stay off the ground when placed on the middle sized leg also.

Ps knucles should always be tightened toward load so if arm pulls down, its tightening, not loosening.

We will sometimes place the knuckle backwards when putting a 4x into the wind. If a gust blows it upwards it will tighten. Its always gusty where i work.


Side note. C-stands work really well for helping build roll cages. Had offroad people ask me where i got them. I keep a couple at the house just to help with home improvement and jeep improvement.

 

[Bruce Watson]

After a few hours (spread over a few weeks of work) of trying all the various ideas on how to sandbag a c-stand from this thread, I concluded that wrapping the sandbag around the riser directly opposite the longest leg gives me the best stability. Because the vast majority of the sandbag's weight is opposite the load, which is directly over the longest leg.

A picture is worth a thousand words, yes? Here's a picture from a setup in a client's living room:

 

[Josh Bass]

Clever. Although some bags have too much puff to have all the weight distributed like that "behind" the stand. If youre always using your own bags great but sometimes its clients or someone elses gear.

Good tip on putting the knuckle "backwards" in that particlar case. I dont really use those types if rigs ever in my work so would never have thunk it.

 

[Moseph]

First and foremost Gaffers shouldnt be bagging c-stands. Grips use c-stands. Now if i could only stop touching stuff and trust the guys id be happy to follow this.

Gaffers shouldn't be bagging any stand really, or touching any piece of equipment period if it's a big enough job. But electrics certainly do use C stands. They're the best stand for Kino Flos (most loathe the baby receiver back plates), and they're good in general when you need something with a lower profile or if you need to arm out a small fixture.

PS - The method of bagging stands like I described and is pictured above is something I only bother doing if the load is actually armed out. You shouldn't arm out if you don't have to though, when that's the case just bagging the high leg is enough.

 

[Paul Hudson]

Gaffers work for the electric department. Grips rig stands.

 

[Lenilenapi]

In my world even DP's have to bag their own lights all too often. "We're not in Los Angeles anymore Toto."

I thought Bruce's idea was the perfect compromise. I'll try it though I agree there has to be enough play in the bag.

Thanks Bruce

 

[Darren Levine]

why is no one talking about loads? the OP exampled a flag.... not exactly high load, which unless it's outside in the wind, it likely wouldn't make any difference where you placed the sandbag.

and seems no one brought up double bagging (not grocery store, not sexual)

if you have enough lying around and the load on the stand merits it, the method of having 1 leg in the load direction and the other two away, bag those two opposite the load.

also on loads, just in case the OP wasn't aware, sandbags come in different weights, including the venerable shot bags, which come in pretty much any weight you can fear. more load, more weight.

how about discussing how much weight to use for how long of an arm with how much of a load? I'm terrible at math, so i wouldn't be the ideal candidate for that exam.

 

[Paul F]

why is no one talking about loads? .....
how about discussing how much weight to use for how long of an arm with how much of a load? I'm terrible at math, so i wouldn't be the ideal candidate for that exam.

The math is easy, but no one is going to do it for a C-stand. Put the bag on and see if it feels stable/balanced or ready to tip over.

 

[Fratis]

and seems no one brought up double bagging (not grocery store, not sexual)

It seems that you are not reading the posts.

If you think bagging the leg at the base of stand riser is not enough to safely hold the arm then put another one on. If that doesnt seem good then you are using the wrong stand.

My Kino cart does hold both c-stands and baby stands. I don't believe c-stands are always the best for kinos.