Correct audio settings

Jose

Jose

Active member
What is the correct audio settings on the EX3 for external mic and wireless mic?
I have the Sony ECM 673 as the shot gun mic and I use the Sennheiser ew100 G2 as my wireless mic. I have the audio in the camera set the input audio trim ch -41 dbu.

The Sony mic I have it set for the +48 phantom power.
The wireless mic is set on Mic.
I am getting over modulation (on both mics) when people speak loud and it is set for auto gain.
If I put the wireless mic on Line I have to increase my wireless gain in order to hear the audio.

Also, I noticed that when I have the wireless turned off on the camera I can hear a noise like if the mic was not grounded so I have to turn the camera switch to the internal mic. My canon XH-A1 does not do that when the wireless mic is off.

Any advise?

Thank you!
 
Following basspig's advice I have the audio level knobs on manual set to 4. The only time I have the camera's audio set to auto is if I'm using the internal microphone. My XLR inputs are set to mic or mic +48v. If they are set to line the audio signal WILL drop! Unless you're using a line level source, which your microphones are clearly not.

From there I set the trim in the menus by having someone speak, first doing it by ear with headphones but then I flip back and forth between the audio level status so that it averages between -10 and -20 and then I get my setting that way.

For the Sennheiser wireless you need to read the manual. There are sensitivity settings on the transmitter to set and an AF out setting on the receiver. Read the manual that came with the ew100 and it'll explain to you/suggest settings for different situations. Once those are setup change the EX1 trim settings for the wireless mic input and you'll be good to go!

As far as the wireless mic sounding as if it weren't grounded...again read the Sennheiser manual. You probably have either your pilot tone turned off or you squelch settings improperly set.
 
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BTW, the external rec volume controlls have unity gain at a setting of '5'. A setting of '4' may have you clipping your preamp before you reach full modulation of the digital 16-bit dynamic range.
 
basspig,

Based on what admr316 told me I should be setting my external shutgun mic in manual mode at the 4 volume setting and adjust the sensitivity via the camera menu?
90% of my shoots are weddings, so once I set the external shutgun to a level that will not hit the red zone, it should be set for all day shooting?

Thanks!
 
How's the noise floor on the EX1/EX3? With our Canon XL-1S we could use a Sony lapel mic without issue, but with a Sennheiser ME55 shotgun the mic doesn't have enough gain to overcome the hissy noise floor. Anyone had a similar problem with the EX1/EX3? Or is the mic pre-amp pretty quiet?
 
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The optimal setting for the gain is '5' not '4'. A setting of '4' will have you clipping the mic preamp before full digital modulation of 16-bits is achieved.

The RightMark tests that I ran show the noise floor to be -86dB. Quite good for a camera.
 
Basspig is correct. He recommends a level of 5 and if that's what the man says I trust him to it. After all he was a harsh critic about Sony's prosumer camera audio circuitry up until the EX1 so I trust that his tests/research is accurate.

I have a question now that it's been brought up...if I want to leave some "head room" to add/subtract gain with the knobs on the camera rear do I set it to 5 and go up to 6-10 for more or will setting it to 4 and boosting to 5 be better? I've been setting my knobs to 4 for that very reason.
 
Adam, "5" is the midpoint of the control. "4" amounts to a small cut or attenuation of the signal and anything above "5" is an increase so using "4" as your starting point is robbing you of some gain already.
 
id like to put my 2 cens into this audio ex1 thread.
i do weddings twice a week normally. im constantly changing settings running in manual mode, its horrible. my old sony dsr390 was perfect in every situation everytime in auto. god knows why sony slacked on the audio for this cam. i have yet to get a setting dueing the reception where the music is not clipping and the toasts are loud enough, i always have to re adjust during toasts. the low end kills the preamps in the ex1, they just cant handle it. ive had my trim set as low as -32, audio knob at 5 and the meter is floating between -20- and -10 and you hear nothing but crackle (because of the low end). i hear this crackle on both my shotgun and my handlheld mich that is micing the dj speakers. i point my mic almost 90 degrees into the air about 2-3 feet away and in between the mids and highs of the speaker. my z1 is in auto the whole night with the same mic config and the audio is awesome on it, blows away the ex1 (auto vs auto). the meter means nothing on the ex1 its very frustrating. i wish i was wrong. im now in search for a new shotgun (that i can "really" control the low cut) and a new handheld mic to use in a butt plug that may have low cut as well. i have a feeling i will never resolve this issue and the ex1 is just a great cam with a consumer preamp inside.
 
Is there a switch in any of the EX1 menus where you can attenuate the signal? On my Canon XL-1S I have the same problem unless I switch the mic input setting to -20 db. I don't have our EX3 yet so I can't speak with experience.
 
If Mark is right, and I'm sure willing to bet he is, he states a setting of "5' will allow unity gain.
Anything lower than that would not allow the converters to reach their full 16bit word.
Theortically every bit can provide 6dB of dynamic range (theoretical 16bit = 96 dB dynamic range)
Compromising the input trim from offering unity gain to the A/D converters can sacrifice dynamic range and signal to noise.

Mark states the noise floor is -86dB. This is at full 16 bit word. It was important to know were to set these levels to acheive unity gain. It would of been nice if Sony gave us this information, but fortunately Mark did the work for us.

I'm not sure why this level is not marked on the camera. Mixing consoles have their faders marked to show unity. Of course, they also have a lot of other useful features, such as peak detect on the input trims to help assist in proper gain staging.
 
Stevet is correct, based on my testing of the EX1. The noise floor figure I got was with the gain at the '5' unity gain setting--the value at which preamp clipping occurs just above drivng the A/D converter to a full 16-bit resolution.

That doesn't stop one from using the Rec level controls at the back of the camera for fine-tuning, but one needs to be aware that the further you adjust away from '5', the more you will degrade the max headroom (reduce below 5) or bring up the noise floor (boost above 5).

Sony appears to be using a digital-based step attenuator, that's programmable by software. It IS a remarkable feat to achieve a preamp with a variable gain pad that spans 57dB.

As to the problems with the crackling audio at weddings, the symptom sounds like a very high output mic and not enough attenuator. The subsonic energy that instigates the clipping may be handling noise, as it is impossible for a properly setup EX1 to clip with live music when the Rec level is set to '5' and the attenuators is adequate for the mic and the loudness level.

One thing about keeping a generous amount of attenuator in line is that the attenuation also does so with the preamp noise, so don't worry about leaving the setting too low for toasts--you can pull it back up in post with a good dynamic processor plugin. With the gain set at '5', you are already making full use of the preamp's and the A/D converter's dynamic range. Turning up the gain will just get you more hiss on quiet programs and clipping on louder programs. 'Tis better to deal with this in post and free your mind of worrying about levels when shooting.
 
basspig, in the past I had issues with audio going direct to EX1 (if you recall). Well recently shot with EX1 again, we set the camera up this time using a line input from a field mixer and the sound came out good.
 
That may have been the good fortune of having all of the levels set just right. :)

Another benefit that a field mixer offers is the ability to create analog clipping that pre-limits the signal before it hits the camera's preamps--but this requires a careful setting of levels and gain-staging to ensure that the analog clipping occurs before the converters in the EX1 get into their weird zones (I say 'weird' because they don't really clip cleanly, like a normal A/D converter, but more like the mic input on a cheap sound card, but also with this really obnoxious fast peak limiting effect). My workaroud has been to leave a good safety margin in the recording levels. I never use anything but the mics direct into the EX1 and as long as I have my attenuators set right, I get great results.

We just shot an X-rated infomercial on Saturday, and I am in the process of editing with the client this week. We relied upon the EX1 for vocal audio from an overhead condenser mic and got perfect audio, in a recording studio setting (the video is about acoustic treatments "revealed", hence the hyperbole is taken literally with a revealing video led by a young dame who's willing to partake in this show 'n tell. It's going to be a great piece, if we edit it like it should be, and we did great on the audio and picture already. A little different from the usual fare that I work on, but a fun project, full of funny, sex humour that puns every acoustical term known.
 
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