Barry_Green
Moderator
Agreed, that's exactly what I was saying too.
Corrado Part II
- Thread starter taormina
- Start date
Barry_Green
Moderator
A-frickin'-men. That is exactly what I was saying.
Exactly what I was saying. If it costs you very little, then by all means yes, leap into it and go. But when it comes time to spend the dough and swing for the fences, you need to have an appropriate skillset already developed.
Barry_Green
Moderator
No, that's not just your opinion, that line is the absolute truth, no question about it.
But -- and here's the big differentiator -- not everyone here has the capability to put together $400k on the strength of their name and creditworthiness alone. For those to whom $3k is a hell of a lot of money, $10k is a pipe dream, and $100k is what they'd sell their soul to the devil for, the prospect of getting Val Kilmer and Jean Claude Van Damme starring in their debut feature is about as realistic as them flapping their arms and flying to the moon. So that door is closed to them. It's like someone who's dead broke with no job walking into the bank and asking for a loan -- it's not gonna happen.
However -- someone who knows what they're doing, who can tell a great story, and to whom the money is the only missing link -- for people like that, the money will come finding them.
In the end, there is only one way to make a living at making films -- make commercial successes that make money at the box office. The question we're discussing is -- how do you get to that level? Some have the ability to finance it themselves -- we have plenty of doctors, lawyers, dentists, successful businessmen, and even yacht salesmen here who can put together the package with the critical elements to make it happen. But for those who don't have the ability to finance it themselves, they have to be able to demonstrate to financiers that they know what they are doing and can make a successful film.
I guess there are two ways to get there -- either have cojones the size of Jupiter and bluff your way through, or show demonstrated skills that get guys like me sending you PM's saying "hey ... I like what I see from you, what are your plans for what's coming next?" There's at least three posters in this very thread who I've sent that same PM to. Not that I'm going to go dropping hundreds of thousands of dollars on them, but I definitely have been interested enough to see what they can deliver with a little help.
How do these guys come to my attention? By producing stellar work that stands heads and shoulders and necks and torsos above the crowd. Three of them have won DVXFests, and one has come achingly close repeatedly.
So -- let's sum it all up into one quick little paragraph -- you really do need at least one of these two things in order to succeed in this business -- a lot of money, or an incredible amount of demonstrated talent. If you have the talent (and the work to demonstrate it), it will attract money. If you don't have the talent but you've got money, money can be a major career jumpstarter. If you don't have the talent or the money, you're screwed. In that case you'd better be practicing and building and refining and honing your skills until you can show that you've got the talent.
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Ted Spencer
Veteran
This is certainly an imperative for me, and I'm while not saying it isn't for Adam (although it appears to be at least secondary), there are quite a few filmmakers out there, as in other art forms, who approach it in the other, much more profit-centric way. It doesn't make them wrong; ultimately, to make a profit, somebody (and usually a pretty large number of somebodies) has to consume/like the stuff. What I consider artistically worthy may look like crap to them...and most likely vice-versa, of course.
There were guys in my freshman dorm at college who just *loved* movies that I thought were absolute, unmitigated ruibbish.
So it goes...
lawriejaffa
Veteran
Hey Ted - it just strikes me is all, the general tenor of film discussion relating to $$$ especially among USA indies. Young guys outdoing each other to big themselves up (to the point of delusion) oversell, aggressive sell, act like there embittered producers 'all about the moooonay' when there kid dreams were to make ugh... star wars i suppose lol. Its so terrifying for ANYONE wanting to pursue work in the creative industries, that 'profit/sustainability' get confused.
Would you rather make enough to live comfortable modesty doing WHAT YOU LOVE or would you rather walk about town with a Bratwurst in your pants pretending to be a business god lol.
There is a massive distinction between the two, and very different strategies between creating a living doing what you love, to creating a living NOT DOING what you love. Just because its film doesnt mean its okay, it could be hell producing crap (for many people) that might but probably doesn't pay lol.
So the real question probably isnt for how filmmakers get cash or make profit from there movies, but really looking at themselves and deciding what they really want for themselves to enjoy there lives making films.
Oh and a +1 to Barry
Would you rather make enough to live comfortable modesty doing WHAT YOU LOVE or would you rather walk about town with a Bratwurst in your pants pretending to be a business god lol.
There is a massive distinction between the two, and very different strategies between creating a living doing what you love, to creating a living NOT DOING what you love. Just because its film doesnt mean its okay, it could be hell producing crap (for many people) that might but probably doesn't pay lol.
So the real question probably isnt for how filmmakers get cash or make profit from there movies, but really looking at themselves and deciding what they really want for themselves to enjoy there lives making films.
Oh and a +1 to Barry
taormina
Hates to Rent
How about because you love making movies so much that you want to be doing it for a living and don't want to be distracted by anything else? Is that motivation enough to try and make it a paying career?
It is for me.
taormina
Hates to Rent
I get what you're saying, but knowing what I know now, I could've done the same thing without borrowing any money.
Pre-sales is where it's at for the first movie.
It won't be easy, but nothing in filmmaking is easy - not making a good movie, not writing a good script, not filming a feature whether it's your first or tenth.......
This is what packaging producers do. They effectively bring all the elements to the table with letters of interest or intent and play a role in securing funding through private investors, presales and other financial facilities. It is what Adam did on Corrado, though he may not have cast his net in all the directions he would with what he knows today.
lawriejaffa
Veteran
Oh agreed- but id plenty run out of motivation if i had to make say corporate films for a living hehe. You get my point, different strokes for different folks, and so one route (the 'commercial' route might suck) for folk who don't want to go that way. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to do that obviously, but just because personally speaking we're a little different probably in our objectives. What i applaud is that you do make very clear what it is your trying to achieve and your own logic, and god knows many indie filmmakers will want to pursue that route. But you see, they don't live in your head, or my head or anyone elses. Folks read this **** and they come to there own amazingly misinformed conclusions over what they think should be incporated into er there strategies for success hehe.
Anyway much love onto you Adam
taormina
Hates to Rent
Sure. I go through this all the time on FilmSpecific.
There are THREE things required to get a film made, only three. You must bring TWO to the table to get the other ONE.
Money - the $$ to make the movie
Talent - Bankable, name actors
Distribution - a promise to distribute the film in one or more territories
That's it. Pretty simple, huh?
kinda sorta. If I have the money and the talent, I can easily get distribution. If I have the talent and the distribution, I can easily get the money. If I have the money and the distribution, I can easily get the talent.
It's kind of like a rubix cube in a sense....you have to make all the pieces work.
So to answer your question, how would I do it now?
I would go to a reputable distributor (read, studio), and tell them I have project such and such and I could get so and so in the film if they were willing to paper the deal. Then, I would go to the bank, who would finance the paper. Then, I would go get the talent.
And that's how my latest project was done.
What if you are a neophyte and don't know anyone?
You need to FIND the producers who can GET you one of the three items!
Many people confuse a producer with someone that makes the movie. You know what - you can hire those chumps for ten-a-penny. Real producers bring you one of the three - either money, talent, or distribution.
My personal focus is to avoid looking for money. It is a hard road, and money is hard to come by. Distribution, however, is not. There is a deal waiting for every one of you who can bring a package to the table!
Find a distributor, sell your way in, and get a relationship going. Find someone who says "I will give you a deal for X territory if you make such and such a movie that has these actors in it"
It costs them NOTHING to make this commitment. It's all on you! They don't pay until you've made the film! They'll write this all day long!
You can bank their promises to distribute, then go chase the actors!
I can tell you this - stop focusing on finding money. Wrong angle. Big mistake on my part. Get distribution, and all will follow.
Distribution, of course, presupposes a marketable genre, script, and actors.
Or, you could keep making non commercial fest winners......let me know how that goes for you, lol.
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Please excuse me for being terms-simple, but what exactly does "paper the deal" mean? Offer a contract to distribute the hypothetical film?
Fascinating stuff, btw. Thanks...
taormina
Hates to Rent
A distribution deal for one or more territories is a contract, a promise to pay upon acceptable delivery of the film. The deal points will include an MG (minimum guarantee - the cash), back end (if any) and what the project is about - the script, the budget, and the anticipated cast.
This contract will be looked at by any reputable entertainment bank, and if the distributor is credit worthy (most US ones are), the bank will advance you money on that distribution deal. If the distributor is a decent size (like Vivendi, who picked up H14), the bank will advance you face value on their paper (minus legal fees and bank charges, of course).
This is why getting distribution is so important! This is why I keep pleading with you guys to look at the commercial side of things. If you can get distribution deals, your films are financed out of the gate.
Getting distribution is all about knowing your genre, what sells, what does not, and what actors sell.
It's not rocket science.
Shawn Philip Nelson
Veteran
Adam, I see how that works for you on movies 2-N, but it seems to me that if Shawn Nelson goes out and says "here's my script in marketable genre XYZ and here's some cool shorts I did" that even if I do get distribution, it won't be favorable. I've seen enough to know that there are many levels of distribution depending on your movie. For instance, I know of a lot of movies in the $300k-$500k that take the front end + back end deals and if they break even it takes 3-4 years to do so. Meanwhile I know of another indie film (ZERO named stars) that takes place in WW2 and they made their money back on the first distro deal. So it seems trying to get distro up front, with my complete lack of credentials, would virtually guarantee I only get the crappy kind of distro.
taormina
Hates to Rent
Well then that's a confidence problem that Shawn Nelson has to deal with, isn't it? 
Anyone can get a distribution deal if they bring the right package. Some of it IS who you know. Most of it is just perseverance and relationship building.
get on the horn and start trying. Hit AFM. That's a good one for deals and everyone is listening.
Anyone can get a distribution deal if they bring the right package. Some of it IS who you know. Most of it is just perseverance and relationship building.
get on the horn and start trying. Hit AFM. That's a good one for deals and everyone is listening.
Shawn Philip Nelson
Veteran
Well then that's a confidence problem that Shawn Nelson has to deal with, isn't it?
Anyone can get a distribution deal if they bring the right package. Some of it IS who you know. Most of it is just perseverance and relationship building.
get on the horn and start trying. Hit AFM. That's a good one for deals and everyone is listening.
Alright, fair shot
taormina
Hates to Rent
Free plug for Stacey - She has a great site that deals exclusively with the BUSINESS of filmmaking. Lots of good stuff. I get a free membership as a contributor, but am unpaid there so no direct affiliation.
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Cool
