GH2 Corporate Project Pricing

[Curtis Mack]

The ethical point is well-taken. But you are not holding the client for ransom as the Mechanic did in Vacation. They have a choice of vendors, in today's market, a glut of vendors.
Asking what their budget is a standard sales technique, called qualifying the client. Not only does it allow you to weed out bottom feeders, but it gives you an idea of what the client's expectations are. If they give you a number much higher than expected, then they will expect something for it which you may not be prepared to deliver. If they don't know, ask them to choose between three figures for the total cost, separated by an order of magnitude, i.e., $50,000, $5000, or $500.
When working for a producer, establish a day rate for image acquisition, about 50% of your weekly earnings. This assumes you will be actually practicing your craft two days/week.
For post, establish an hourly rate with a half-day minimum. For work that you personally shot, you should be able to gave a flat maximum price (with a significant positive margin for error) for the project, so that the client will not fear that you will run up a meter on them. For footage acquired by someone else, charge straight time, with the sky the limit.
For this project, the cost, based on a very low day rate of $600 and an hourly rate of $40 for post, the quoted charge would be $2400. If your actual time in post is a lot lower than your estimate, you can pass the savings on to the producer. If you do this, call them and let them know in a real-time conversation before you send the invoice.

 

[Jim Simon]

All this talk and not a single one of you talked or mentioned licensingrogar-BlackEye(DBG

Probably because it's irrelevant.

 

[Jim Simon]

again, like others have mentioned. it totally depends on WHAT youre shooting, the TYPE of location, and what the client expects from an "on-set comfort and options" level.

Actually, none of that is relevant in this case. Like I said, "other costs are incurred by someone else". If more crew were needed, the producer would pay them. If more gear is needed, the producer buys or rents it. I'm only looking to get a sense of rates for shooting and post work.

 

[Jim Simon]

i charge $1500 for a full day (no more than 10 hours, including travel and breaks) that buys them: me, appropriate camera, tripod, basic audio bag (a couple lavs and a shotgun) and a basic 3-point light setup. then $80/hr for edit work.

Now THAT is useful info. Thanks.

 

[Jim Simon]

Charge 50% more than the client wants to pay

I've no idea what the client will be paying. It's not my client. I did the shooting and the editing, and I'm billing the producer.

 

[Jim Simon]

But you are not holding the client for ransom as the Mechanic did in Vacation. They have a choice of vendors

The work is done. That's why the pricing based on client's resources feels off.

 

[Jim Simon]

For this project, the cost, based on a very low day rate of $600 and an hourly rate of $40 for post, the quoted charge would be $2400.

That's exactly what my bill came out to, only arrived at slightly differently.

$600/day, but at 5 hours only billed 1/2 day for 2 days.
$60/hr for post at 30 hours.

I'm getting a sense those rates are well within reason.

 

[PegLeg Media]

Ive seen huge price differences in some of your answers, maybe it would be more beneficial to post a few projects and put the time spent filming, editing and price charged for the project.

 

[Liam Hall]

I've no idea what the client will be paying. It's not my client. I did the shooting and the editing, and I'm billing the producer.

Your client is the producer...

 

[dustylense]

Probably because it's irrelevant.

Irrelevant? So you like throwing away money and your rights?

 

[TheDingo]

...The February edition of the New York "Photo Disctrict News" magazine has an article titled "Video Production 101: How to Estimate the Costs and Fees" on pages 34-37, where they break everything down on three day $60,000 shoot, and a one day $49,000 shoot. ( definitely out of my league )

Photo District News Website

 

[Jim Simon]

Irrelevant? So you like throwing away money and your rights?

It's a work for hire. I have no rights.

 

[dustylense]

It's a work for hire. I have no rights.

Are you shooting with your camera? Are you DP'ing the camera? You do have rights and I suggest you read up on them....

 

[JFP]

Are you shooting with your camera? Are you DP'ing the camera? You do have rights and I suggest you read up on them....

I imagine that you also work as a photographer. I work as a photo assistant sometimes as well and the topic of licensing images doesn't seem to come up as much when I talk to people in video. I'd like to hear your thoughts more on how you usually license your work for video.

 

[dustylense]

I imagine that you also work as a photographer. I work as a photo assistant sometimes as well and the topic of licensing images doesn't seem to come up as much when I talk to people in video. I'd like to hear your thoughts more on how you usually license your work for video.

Simple.. One of the questions I ask when bidding out the work is it's destination and the length they plan on showing the video. Then, in the "Licensing" section of my estimate/contract, I put a a dollar amount based on how I feel the client is. Some clients are bigger than others, so I research how big or small they are. Are they a brand? THEEEEEN, if they have budget issues and ask if I can reduce the estimate I have flexibility to make adjustments to the license and look like the "good guy" or take money off the production and really not lose anything due to the license.

It's becoming apparent to me why clients over the last decade have been a ***** to get a contract signed. It's because lots of guys are "GIVING" them something for nothing. Just hurting the overall industry from video to stills shooting. Sometimes I miss the film days.....

 

[wgzn]

Are you shooting with your camera? Are you DP'ing the camera? You do have rights and I suggest you read up on them....

as long as ive been in the production industry (20 or so years), "licensing" is one of the things ive never quite gotten my head around.

do architects ask for points on every plate of spaghetti if they design an italian restaurant? no
do plumbers expect .005¢ per flush for every doctors office they plumb? no

so why should musicians, photo (and video)graphers?

i also dont get why when i go buy a camera i have to pay on delivery, but all my clients expect 30,60, 90 (or longer) terms. - but that's another discussion

take for example stock photos from say a traditional stock resource like getty. if a photo i buy goes out of the main market, it goes from like $400 to $4000 dollars. i think a lot of people caught on that that was a big money for nothing racket. and thats why things like pond5 have come around.

the industry has changed. and democratizing of creativity has its (many) downsides...

 

[dustylense]

as long as ive been in the production industry (20 or so years), "licensing" is one of the things ive never quite gotten my head around.

do architects ask for points on every plate of spaghetti if they design an italian restaurant? no
do plumbers expect .005¢ per flush for every doctors office they plumb? no

so why should musicians, photo (and video)graphers?

i also dont get why when i go buy a camera i have to pay on delivery, but all my clients expect 30,60, 90 (or longer) terms. - but that's another discussion

take for example stock photos from say a traditional stock resource like getty. if a photo i buy goes out of the main market, it goes from like $400 to $4000 dollars.
i think a lot of people caught on that that was a big money for nothing racket. and thats why things like pond5 have come around.

the industry has changed. and democratizing of creativity has its (many) downsides...

How many architects do you know. Because I know hundreds. ANd yes, they do charge for designing their designs. And I also know hundreds of builders that use the same floor plan of a home the architect designed, guess what? THey have to pay for those plans again.
If you guys don't want to challenge or charge a license fee, go ahead. Throw money away. Last year for me was slow in renewal for license, but I'll take the $7500 or so I did collect for doing things I shot years ago....
You realize every time a commercial plays on the TV, those actors are collecting money don't you?
The industry has changed. It's because some guys are ruining it.

 

[wgzn]

How many architects do you know. Because I know hundreds.

oh, are we going to play the "who's dong is bigger" game?

i actually work for a few of them. not "hundreds" but enough to know that unless you WERE one (or had them in your family), it would be ludicrous to claim that you "know hundreds"

but maybe, for some reason you actually do. i'll yield to you there. but it still doesnt address my original analogy

ANd yes, they do charge for designing their designs.

super. so do i

And I also know hundreds of builders that use the same floor plan of a home the architect designed, guess what? THey have to pay for those plans again.

yeah. for a DIFFERENT project or client

my problems are:
1. you're not arguing apples to apples. youre not addressing the accurate nature of the comparison
2. if youve been paid for your work. youve delivered the work. why should the SAME client pay again to use it?

You realize every time a commercial plays on the TV, those actors are collecting money don't you?

i do. especially on the national level. but that will probably change soon as well

The industry has changed. It's because some guys are ruining it.

you can argue sour grapes all day. but you either adapt or you become extinct.

when i started in the ad agency biz in the early 1990's i watched desktop publishing kids "ruin" the ad production biz.
when i WAS a desktop video kid in the mid 1990's i "ruined" the $60,000 betacam and stack of decks guys.
now that i'm a desktop video guy. i'm having to bid against a bunch of DSLR jockeys lowering the curve. taking $40,000 projects down to about $10,000 (or less)

same logic goes for manufacturing, programming, retail, real estate, what have you. technology is democratizing everything. and i frequently ask myself "does the fact that i CAN, mean that i SHOULD?" and the answer is probably no. and many times i stand my ground, just as you are

i'm not trying to poop on your business. im just saying that even the old bread and butter $60,000 corporate project are bringing things in house. if you dont smell what's cookin. you're eventually going to start missing meals.

 

[dustylense]

No, same project.
ABout the DSLR jockeys. It's them that have to be educated. Yes, it has hurt the overall business. Meals still coming in and at my rates for what I do. Let the kids charge what they want. I'll just work less for more money....and get more money off my license. I got 10 more years in me, I'll be retired by then....

 

[wgzn]

ABout the DSLR jockeys. It's them that have to be educated.

about WHAT?

the dollar is the unstoppable force here. if clients could get around unions and licensing and still maintain the cushy experience they're used to - they'd do it in a heartbeat. i've seen it repeatedly, first hand. on both ends of the discussion.

the luxury that you enjoy (and will likely continue to for some time) is because there are enough mouths on the tit who dont want to wreck what they have.

im not saying youre out of line. or that what you are saying isnt true. i just think that a shooter needs to be aware of the landscape. and to try to inject major brand logic into a regional or even local corporate scenario will more often than not find you out of a gig.