My mechanic told me yesterday over the phone while he was in the hospital a couple of weeks ago he refused to get vaccinated when it was offered it while in hospital. Was happy to have his other shots updated but not Covid vaccine. He’s in his 30s and has some medical issues, I know a large number of people all ethnic, age and education levels who won’t get the vaccine. I’ve escorted a few people thru the vaccination process and will get it when I’m allowed.
Coronavirus Impact III
- Thread starter Eric Coughlin
- Start date
ahalpert
Major Contributor
As long as it's <30% of the population, we'll be fine. and they may feel more comfortable with it later. My handyman said he is vaccine-hesitant and will wait to see if anything happens to his wife after she gets her shot, lol.
Unfortunately I don’t believe we’ll get to that percentage. Almost all the people I’m talking to have jobs, still can do 90 percent of the activities they did before with changes. In certain areas the social, economic tsunami is real but other areas it’s real but people are used to it, new normal. The pain isn’t severe enough for many to get a vaccine.
Phil Rhodes
Well-known member
Something I'm seeing a lot is that big, well-funded productions are back at work, but not much else is.
Little independent shorts and music videos and the like aren't really happening because they can't afford the testing, the insurance, or the uncertainty of having to replace people at short notice. That's sensible, of course. I've had stuff I'd have liked to do but didn't. Still, it does mean that a lot of the ab-initio training that would usually be going on, and the reel-building for people straight out of non-specialist universities and the lesser film schools, really just hasn't been happening for over a year and is unlikely to happen for another six or nine months.
This sort of thing is generally overlooked because people who work on Netflix shows generally don't think it's very important, but this is where a lot of the very most basic training for the film industry happens and given the demand for crew that we're likely about to see, this is not a great situation. Similar concerns attend beginner actors.
Little independent shorts and music videos and the like aren't really happening because they can't afford the testing, the insurance, or the uncertainty of having to replace people at short notice. That's sensible, of course. I've had stuff I'd have liked to do but didn't. Still, it does mean that a lot of the ab-initio training that would usually be going on, and the reel-building for people straight out of non-specialist universities and the lesser film schools, really just hasn't been happening for over a year and is unlikely to happen for another six or nine months.
This sort of thing is generally overlooked because people who work on Netflix shows generally don't think it's very important, but this is where a lot of the very most basic training for the film industry happens and given the demand for crew that we're likely about to see, this is not a great situation. Similar concerns attend beginner actors.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
That's insane. I don't want to live under these conditions for a minute longer than I have to. Nor do I want to let another million americans die. Nor do I want to contract a disease that I'd almost certainly survive but has dodgy, unknown long-term effects
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Wow. Here's a vaccine protester in California holding a "save your soul" sign to discourage vaccinations. It's so strange to me. Vaccines have been around for a long time and are responsible for our long, cushy, polio-free lives. I get the "no long-term studies have been done on the vaccine" argument (although they haven't been done on covid19 either...) but save your soul?
The other odd thing is that if they're concerned about personal freedoms, I mean, they're infringing on other people's choices. Those protesters caused an hour-long closure of the vaccine site. And look at all the people who were driving there to get a shot without anyone forcing them to:
The other odd thing is that if they're concerned about personal freedoms, I mean, they're infringing on other people's choices. Those protesters caused an hour-long closure of the vaccine site. And look at all the people who were driving there to get a shot without anyone forcing them to:
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Run&Gun
Veteran
The possibility of (varied and unknown) long-term effects is, in my opinion, the scariest part of this disease. One of the stories on Real Sports last night was on “long haulers”. The subjects were college and professional athletes in their prime, until being stricken with COVID. Now they are little more than invalids. It’s pretty scary and telling when a professional athlete says that a good day is feeling good enough/having enough energy to just get out of bed or go to the grocery store.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Right but that counts as a "success" in the statistical analysis of mortality-focused observers
Run&Gun
Veteran
I deleted what I really wanted to say...
I don’t understand the philosophy/point-of-view of some of these people. So, it’s ok for someone to get a polio vaccine, but they’re going to hell if they get a COVID vaccine? Or do they look at it as it’s against Gods will and you’re just supposed to let whatever happens, happen? Reminds me of the old joke about the guy standing on his roof, because it’s flooding and he’s praying to God for help. Then a guy in a canoe comes paddling up and asks the guy on the roof if he needs help. The guy says, “No, I’ve asked God to save me and he will.” An hour later, as the water continues to rise, a group of rescuers in a motorboat come up to the roof and asks the guy if he needs help. Again, the guy on the roof says, “No, I’ve asked God for help and he won’t let me down”. A few hours later, as the waters have risen more and forced the guy onto the top of the chimney, a helicopter flys over and hovers above him as the rescuers plead with him to grab the rope so that he can be pulled to safety, the guy once again rebukes the offer, saying that God will save him. Finally the water overtakes the roof and chimney completely and the guy is washed away and drowns. Now he is standing in Heaven in front of God. The first thing the guy says is, “God, I prayed for you to save me. Why didn’t you?”. God looks at the guy and says, “I sent two boats and a helicopter”.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
That's pretty funny. The Pope is down with vaccines, too. and I mean, fertility technology - I haven't heard of any spiritual complaints about those scientific advances.
I'm not keen on injecting myself with a mysterious fluid. But it's no different from taking a pill. How do you know what's in that? It's no different from drinking milk you didn't watch come out of an udder.
Or how about chemicals in clothing and household materials? As far as I know, manufacturers only have to prove safety in advance of selling food and drugs. For everything else, you just wait to see if your customers get cancer and then hire big lawyers.
I think it's healthy to be skeptical of everything new, and I understand the desire for longer-term studies, but you need to have a plausible theory of harm. Like vaccines could cause autism at a certain age - it seems false to me, but it's a specific theory that can be tested. what's the problem with vaccines in adulthood?
What would FDR's generation think of their descendants tossing out their greatest achievements...
Run&Gun
Veteran
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. The problem with so many of the anti-vaxers, they have not had to go through the hell of the diseases that ravaged mankind, before there were vaccines for so many things, like polio. My Grandmother was born in 1920 and made it to just past her 97th birthday. I'm sure if she was still here she would tell the anti-vaxers they are crazy. And my Mom was born in the 40's. There was no way that I was not going to have my vaccinations.
I don't have to worry about making a decision to get a vaccine right now, but I am in the group with a little skepticism. But only because it's so new and without the long-term data that we would normally have. My GF, who is a paramedic, turned it down for that same reason. Her shift has had both doses and she said that a lot of people, after receiving the second dose, felt horrible, like they had a bad case of the flu. But my Mom, who received her second dose(Pfizer) last week, said that she felt fine afterwards, that the shot itself didn't hurt and that she didn't even stay seated the full 10 minutes afterwards for observation that they want you too. She said, "I must just be a tough old bird".
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Well said.
I think that skepticism is healthy but that by definition it will be uncertain either way. People who are sure it's bad or it's good are just a little too certain. I, too, would prefer long-term data, but considering the circumstances, I'll take the vaccine. And the studies had showed that the 2nd dose gave people bad coronavirus symptoms for a day, so as much as that sucks, it isn't a surprise. I'm not sure if that's true about the non-mRNA vaccines, but I believe it's true of both of the mRNA ones.
Run&Gun
Veteran
By the time I'm eligible, it will probably be approaching at least a year for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines(counting their trials), so we should have an even better idea of the mid-to-long-term effects. My GF doesn't know which vaccine was given to her people, but a lot of the ones that became sick from the second dose, were down for several days. One of the guys, was supposedly in bed for about three days with vertigo like symptoms.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
That sounds worse than what I've heard reported. I wonder what accounts for the difference in reactions.
Woof - astrazeneca testing at 10% efficacy against south african variant in a small scale study, a far steeper drop-off in effectiveness than the mRNA vaccines. But it may prevent serious infection and let you get off with just mild covid, unclear.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...cine-10-effective-south-african-variant-study
But again - the mRNA vaccines handled that variant nearly as well as they handled OG covid.
I’m more optimistic than a few days ago. Some of the “not taking the vaccine” folks I’ve referenced are slowly changing their minds. Part might be that their parents/family have gotten the first and second doses and it’s sinking as it gets closer to their opportunity to get the vaccine.
Phil Rhodes
Well-known member
One of the things that concerns me about this is that right now they're prioritising older and more vulnerable people - for good and understandable reasons. I think it's pretty clear many situations will start to require proof of vaccination. That's completely understandable, but by the time we get to this summer and would hope to see at least some opening-up of society, most of the working-age population won't have been vaccinated. That job won't be done until early autumn at best, so there will be a good few months of awkwardness wherein deaths will, we might reasonably hope, be way down, but anyone under fifty is likely to find him or herself disallowed from doing a lot of things.
P
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Quite possible but I doubt it will play out that way. For one thing, there might be a lawsuit if someone bars you from an activity without a vaccine that you're not legally allowed yet. For another, if we're doing masks/social distancing now I think we can just keep that up. Finally, if people aren't dying, I think the societal will to tamp this thing down is going to shrivel.
Or do you mean like going out to baseball games and voluntary activities? Planes?
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I don’t see there being any activity in Indiana that would bar non vaccinated folks from. Other states I have no idea if they’ll ban non vaccinated . Bars, restaurants, gyms, banks, gov buildings, high school sports, many schools are open now, have been for most of pandemic. I’ve talked with several groups of people who’ve driven from Michigan and Illinois to go to bars .
With some of the hydroxychloroquine trials the amount of the drug used was at toxic levels, when the appropriate dose should have been much lower.
What amazes me is how the mainstream news has almost completely ignored the drug Ivermectin, but there are some YouTube channels that have been covering it.
Discussing Ivermectin And COVID-19 With 4 Experts
NY Judge Orders Hospital To Use Ivermectin, Woman Recovers