Copying P2 Card from laptop PCMCIA to Mac and external HDD simultaneously

T

tengo

Active member
I don't know if people realize this. I didn't beforehand and only tried this because I was rushing for time.

What I did was to plug in my 64GB E-Series P2 card into my Lenovo Thinkpad built-in PCMCIA reader, then I simultaneously transfered 22GB of footage into both my PowerMac (via gigabit ethernet) and USB 2.0 portable 2.5" HDD (for backup).

It took 28 mins for the 22GB footage to import into FCP 6 and 33 mins (average around 11MB/sec) to transfer to the USB 2.0 portable HDD. The portable HDD took 5 more mins after the FCP import was completed.

Funny thing is I did a quick 2nd test. I tried doing just the single task of transferring the same 22GB footage to the same portable HDD again and I got up to 13.5 MB/sec.

So it seems to me that I can really do the 2 copying at the same time rather than doing one copying after another at a significantly shorter time. It seems to me technically, the P2 card and laptop PCMCIA reader can support such high reading rate that it can easily transfer to 2 or even more devices at the same time.

Let's say Panasonic comes up with a single P2 card reader and connects to say FW800, I doubt this method can support 2 copying efficiently at the same time.

I didn't do comprehensive testing and I wonder what are the experiences of other people. Perhaps you guys can share more.
 
I use Nexto DI to dump the mem cards then I can plus the drive to my computer and transfer as many times I want with no time constrain as my P2 card is already available.
 
tengo said:
So it seems to me that I can really do the 2 copying at the same time rather than doing one copying after another at a significantly shorter time. It seems to me technically, the P2 card and laptop PCMCIA reader can support such high reading rate that it can easily transfer to 2 or even more devices at the same time.
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Yep. I've been saying this for years, it's one of my favorite things about the solid-state system and the high speed of the P2 cards. With an E-series card you could probably come close to copying off to three destinations at the same speed (assuming an Expresscard or PCMCIA connection, and going to an internal drive, external USB, and external firewire).

Let's say Panasonic comes up with a single P2 card reader and connects to say FW800, I doubt this method can support 2 copying efficiently at the same time.
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If your computer has only the one fw800 bus, then yeah, it's less likely, because half the bus would be saturated with the card data coming in, and the other half with it going out. You'd probably be better off going with FW800 to an internal drive and an external USB drive; you could probably still do two copies simultaneously.

P2 is so much faster than the hard drives people copy it to. If you were to copy to a SATA RAID, you could actually offload a 64GB P2 card in six minutes.
 
Speaking of P2 card readers on a Macbook Pro, can one get something close to top speed from a Panasonic AJ-PCD35 5-Bay P2 Drive (with PCIe connector) connected via an Express Card/34 adapter to the Macbook Pro? if so, can anyone recommend what adapter to use? Or would it be better to go with the Firewire version (AJ-PCD20)?
 
rgtaylor said:
Speaking of P2 card readers on a Macbook Pro, can one get something close to top speed from a Panasonic AJ-PCD35 5-Bay P2 Drive (with PCIe connector) connected via an Express Card/34 adapter to the Macbook Pro? if so, can anyone recommend what adapter to use? Or would it be better to go with the Firewire version (AJ-PCD20)?
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Maybe in a couple of weeks you may have another solution/answer.

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/qio.html

Cheers
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au
 
rgtaylor said:
Speaking of P2 card readers on a Macbook Pro, can one get something close to top speed from a Panasonic AJ-PCD35 5-Bay P2 Drive (with PCIe connector) connected via an Express Card/34 adapter to the Macbook Pro? if so, can anyone recommend what adapter to use? Or would it be better to go with the Firewire version (AJ-PCD20)?
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Yes you can connect the PCD35 through Expresscard 34, using the $199 Magma Express EX34.

However, you will only get faster transfers if what you're transferring TO is faster. If you're going to the internal drive of an MBP, that drive will be the slowest element in the chain, and frankly FW400 is going to be about fast enough to take advantage of what your drive can offer; FW800 would provide a slight improvement but not much. Hard drives are slow. If you have an SSD in there, maybe the FW800 will prove worth it, and if you have two SATA or SSD drives in a RAID, then the PCD35 would be able to take advantage of everything they could offer.
 
Barry,

Thanks much for the very comprehensive reply. Currently, I'm shooting 72pn24 format on an HVX-200A. The next few projects are day-long interviews so I wanted to be able to rotate cards in the field. And, yes, I just have a standard HD n the MBP. Sounds like FW may be the best I can do in the field but will also plan to connect a USB back-up drive. One more "kind-of-related" question: I'm planning on picking up another camera (for A and B). Panny still has the rebate going on the HPX-170. For me, cameras are long term investments. I don't mind paying more for something that will serve me better in the long run. Are there other cams out there I should be considering? Eventually, will be shooting more in 1080p. And all this means even more of a need to devise a good procedure to off-load cards and/or get more P2s!

Thanks again.

Rob
 
Well, if you want a USB backup drive, and you're worried about field workflow turnaround time, I say copy to both drives simultaneously. There's a case where you'll see the benefits of the faster P2 card, because you should be able to easily copy to both the internal and an external drive, simultaneously, at full speed. You'll have two copies of the footage in the same time it takes to make one copy.

As for a second camera... there are many cameras to consider, and a million different reasons why one might be better than another. If you like the HVX200A, the HPX170 or HMC150 are the logical choices for a second camera; HPX170 maintains the P2 workflow and has more features, the HMC150 is a lower-cost option and provides for long-form recording. For the type of work you're doing, I'd strongly consider an HMC150. It can easily handle continuous 3-hour recordings at 1080/24p onto a single $100 SDHC memory card. However, SDHC isn't P2, and if you want the P2 workflow, instant editability, and bulletproof recording, an HPX170 would integrate with your existing workflow.

Then there's also the HPX300 to consider. It has a cleaner/smoother look to it, much sharper 1080p, and its AVC-Intra codec would let you actually record a lot more footage per gigabyte than the HVX200A does. The HPX300 has a 1080pN mode, so you get 25% more footage per gigabyte, and it has an AVC-Intra50 recording mode which provides about DVCPRO-HD quality at half the bitrate. Combine the two together and you could be shooting 1080/24pN at the same data rates as your HVX's 720/24pN. On a 32GB card, that means 80 minutes of 1080/24pN, or 160 minutes of 720/24pN. But the HPX300 is more expensive and substantially larger, so you'd have to see if it makes sense for your shooting scenarios.
 
Barry,

Can't thank you enough for all the good info. I had been thinking about the HPX-300, but am aware it is a 3MOS camera and didn't know if (1) it would cut well with the HVX and more importantly (2) whether the rolling-shutter issues would . . . well, be an issue! If your patience hasn't run out, would appreciate your thought on that last issue. Thanks again.
 
Cutting a 200 to a 300 is a little bit of an issue. You can get the color to line up perfectly, which is most of the matching process, but there's no denying that there's a significant difference in sharpness between them, as well as overall video texture -- the HPX300 has a smoother/slicker texture, the HVX has a grittier texture. So, with some massaging in post you could probably get them to match up pretty well, but if you're talking about doing a multi-camera job and swapping between them, it'll be pretty easy to tell which shots were from which.

Of course, that's for us pixel-peepers; the audience won't likely notice all that much.

I don't remember if you said HVX200, or HVX200A. If it's an original HVX200, the gulf between them will be even more noticeable; the 200A has a better chipset and more accurate color reproduction and significantly lower noise.

As for rolling shutter -- it is what it is. It will complicate those situations where rolling shutter is problematical. Flashes/strobes will be an issue, although the HPX300 does have the flash-band compensation. Skewing is pretty noticeable in 1080/24p when you're panning at decent to fast speeds; it's much more mild in 720p or in 1080/60i. So -- there's no magic involved with the rolling shutter, if you think a rolling shutter camera is appropriate for what you shoot, the HPX300 should qualify. And if you think rolling shutter would definitely cause problems, well, they'll cause problems on the HPX300 too.
 
Barry_Green said:
Cutting a 200 to a 300 is a little bit of an issue. You can get the color to line up perfectly, which is most of the matching process, but there's no denying that there's a significant difference in sharpness between them, as well as overall video texture -- the HPX300 has a smoother/slicker texture, the HVX has a grittier texture. So, with some massaging in post you could probably get them to match up pretty well, but if you're talking about doing a multi-camera job and swapping between them, it'll be pretty easy to tell which shots were from which.

Of course, that's for us pixel-peepers; the audience won't likely notice all that much.

I don't remember if you said HVX200, or HVX200A. If it's an original HVX200, the gulf between them will be even more noticeable; the 200A has a better chipset and more accurate color reproduction and significantly lower noise.

As for rolling shutter -- it is what it is. It will complicate those situations where rolling shutter is problematical. Flashes/strobes will be an issue, although the HPX300 does have the flash-band compensation. Skewing is pretty noticeable in 1080/24p when you're panning at decent to fast speeds; it's much more mild in 720p or in 1080/60i. So -- there's no magic involved with the rolling shutter, if you think a rolling shutter camera is appropriate for what you shoot, the HPX300 should qualify. And if you think rolling shutter would definitely cause problems, well, they'll cause problems on the HPX300 too.
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I have both the HVX-200 and the 200A. Not worried about the pixel-peepers. I put my emphasis more on the overall impression on the general audience. And I understand the rolling-shutter is what it is. Most of the time, that won't be a problem since I don't tend to do fast pans or get involved with strobes/flash much. I'll glive it all more thought. Very much indebted to you. Thanks so much for the info and insight!

Best,
 
Barry,

One "last" question, honest! If I use the HPX-300 to cut with the HVX-200A would it be better to record using the DVC PRO HD codec instead of the AVC-Intra50 for matching purposes? And if and when I do use AVC-Intra in a project where I'm using the 200A as Cam-B, would I put that into a ProRes 422 timeline and then import the DVC Pro HD footage from the 200A into that timeline? Guess that's two questions . . . but they're my last ones! Thanks again.
 
For simplicity, you could use DVCPRO-HD on both; I haven't tried mixing DVCPRO-HD and AVCIntra-50, so I can't answer as to whether it'd make a difference in ability to match.

And why use ProRes? FCP supports DVCPRO-HD and AVC-Intra natively; is there some benefit to going to prores? I'm not an FCP user and can't really answer anything further on that program, you'd have to ask in the FCP forum for FCP answers.
 
Whoops! I guess I'm behind the learning curve on that one and didn't realize FCP now handled AVC-Intra natively. That's great news for future reference.

Thanks so very much for all the great help you provide this community! Happiest of Holidays!
 
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