Coppola's Rumble Fish Plot

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

So my Netflix just came in and it is Rumble Fish (1983)...

I was explaining the plot to my roomate and just realized that the initial plot I was describing was JUST like Gone in 60 Seconds. My roomate said... "Sounds like the beginning to American History X"

Does anyone else think there is a big coincidence to these stories? Or is the idea of "an older brother returning to save his younger brother from following the same road he once had" general enough to justify the use of it in many films.

Is this copying or just using a basic launching point, too general to claim.

What do you think?


Just to help here is the Netflix DVD description:

In Francis Ford Coppola's black and white adaptation of SE Hinton novel, Rusty James (Matt Dillon) is the leader of a small duing gang once led by his now-absent brother, Motorcycle Boy (Mickey Rourke). When Rusty is injured in a gang fight, his brother returns to their sad, industrial town to help. Despite this, Rusty continues on his path of self-destruction, damaging his relationships with his girlfriend (Diane Lane) and friends.

 

[Mattykins]

Everything is copied from something. Only once every once in a long while something comes along that is truly unique.

 

[Scott F]

I dunno, are there any ancient Greek plays in which an older brother returns from battle to educate his younger sibling? Let's track this to the source.

Seriously though, I would love to see that movie again in it's entirety. That's going waaay back to 1980's HBO for me.

 

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

I dunno, are there any ancient Greek plays in which an older brother returns from battle to educate his younger sibling? Let's track this to the source.

Seriously though, I would love to see that movie again in it's entirety. That's going waaay back to 1980's HBO for me.

You are probably 100% correct.

 

[Jon Starr]

Everything comes from everywhere. Either it's an idea from another idea, or the idea comes from thin air, yet resembles another one.

Often when I come up with stories off the top of my head I realize they're linked to at least one other story/film out there one way or another.

It's difficult, but wonderful, when something is truly unique. Even then if you look hard enough you'll find another similar story.

 

[Scott F]

Everything comes from everywhere.

Threadjack!

Answer me this, (anyone) regarding original ideas. I've always been a Star Wars fan since I was a kid heavily based on what I perceive as George Lucas' original idea. Had there ever been a film that took place "long ago in a galaxy far away"?

I think it's pretty bold to create a series of films that have no ties whatsoever to human culture and life on earth. Had that been done before Star Wars? I mean you've got a million sci-fi movies where Earth is invaded by aliens or we go to another planted but....

(Not talking about the storylines/Joseph Cambell mythology, we know that goes back to ancient times)

 

[Jon Starr]

Threadjack!

Answer me this, (anyone) regarding original ideas. I've always been a Star Wars fan since I was a kid heavily based on what I perceive as George Lucas' original idea. Had there ever been a film that took place "long ago in a galaxy far away"?

I think it's pretty bold to create a series of films that have no ties whatsoever to human culture and life on earth. Had that been done before Star Wars? I mean you've got a million sci-fi movies where Earth is invaded by aliens or we go to another planted but....

(Not talking about the storylines/Joseph Cambell mythology, we know that goes back to ancient times)

George Lucas' Star Wars films are based off of a story/film, I think it's called 7 samurai? Not sure. Star Wars is the old samurai/martial arts films mixed with Flash Gordon (it's was pitched as Flash Gordon originally, and he changed it when it wasn't accepted).

So while it is original, it is linked to two different sources. Ansd yes, the "galaxy far far away" idea has been done... i.e. flash gordon and probably many other films. As for having ties to human culture... that may be the one original thing that star wars has... but I'm sure it's been done before as well.

But as for originality of the story, I mean look at Eragon, not the best film, but a lot of people complained how it was so similar to Star Wars. Then others would come in and say the star wars story, a prophecy child being led by an old hermit to overthrow the evil in the world, etc, has been done many many times in the past. It's a very old story.

 

[Scott F]

... that may be the one original thing that star wars has... but I'm sure it's been done before as well.

Yeah Jon, like I said, let's forget the Cambell mythology, the Samurai influence and all that....what I am talking about specifically is the setting: The fact that this movie has no ties to planet Earth and human beings as we know them.

Flash Gordon involved an Earthling traveling to other worlds, right? I'm not up on the original serials, LOL, just that movie where the American football player met Ming the Merciless.

I'm wondering if anyone else has any insight to this. Was Star Wars the first FILM to take place off-Earth and w/o human beings as we know them? (uhh...know ourselves?)

And again sorry to threadjack, so in fairness to the OP, I must say the Stewart Copeland/Stan Ridgeway soundtrack to Rumblefish was great!

 

[Jon Starr]

Missed the line about the mythology, sorry.

I'm wondering if anyone else has any insight to this. Was Star Wars the first FILM to take place off-Earth and w/o human beings as we know them? (uhh...know ourselves?)

Well it probably is the first film. Film is still a fairly new medium when compared to tales/stories. Star Wars was able to take us to another world as a film because of the advancements in special effects. And so I wouldn't be surprised if it's the first film to not have any ties to earth whatsoever. But that's just films. Stories/tales may be another case.

I think flash gordon, from what I remember of a cartoon version that I watched back in the 90's, is a regular earthman, that gets transported to another galaxy where there's other humans (probably due to poor make-up and special effects at the time, or maybe it was a comic first...) and it's about this man's adventures.

 

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

The inovation with star wars was that he combined hero's journey / adventure mythology with sci-fi and no that had not been done before in the same way, but the story is not new, just the packaging and you see it in several other giant films or works.

If you break it down to boy, or young man, who's marked as special, mentored by a wizard or shaman type, has to defeat an evil to which he is somewhat connected, needs a band of friends to help him on his way, achieves maturity through the ordeal - then that's a lot of stories.

Lord of the Rings (book before SW)
Harry Potter (after)
Wizard of Oz (with a chick and variations)
Alice in Wonderland (another chick variation)
Peter Pan (to some degree)
Conan the Barbarian (varation-boy that becomes physically more than man before he can avenge his fathers death, he's a lone wolf but still meets others along the way who aid him)

All of the above conform to the "Hero's Journey"

All of the above involve leaving one's "home" for an unknown world, but Lucas was the first to make it space.

If you take the child / boy aspect out of it, the myth / hero's journey becomes even broader and more applicable. = The Matrix, but you could argue it as having a coming of age story - Reeves is kind of larval in the real world, coocooned as Neo, then Butterfly as The ONe even though he's a grown man.

So he took the idea of "the special one" or "kid" who joins with a band of friends to defeat a dark power and put it in space.

 

[Jon Starr]

I think when it comes to making something unique, it's not about the fact that when you strip the story down to it's bare bones that it sounds like hundreds of other stories. It's about taking an idea and taking it in a new direction.

That is why Star Wars is unique. That's what separates original from un-original.