Cooke Panchro Prime vs Zeiss Compact Prime

jcoxshooter

jcoxshooter

Well-known member
Putting together our F3 and wanted feed back on these two lens Cooke Panchro Prime vs Zeiss Compact Prime. We are going to buy a complete set of one or the other. I have worked with Zeiss Super Speeds of course loved them. Have not had my hands on either of these, any feed back would be great.
 
Speaking strictly in terms of logistics, the Panchros are T2.8 across the board, while all but the 18, 21, and 25mm of the CP.2s are T2.1 (18mm is T3.5, 21/25mm are T2.9).
The gearing on the Panchros is extremely fluid, CP.2s feature a bit more resistance.
Aside from price and aperture difference, the CP.2's main advantage is they are far smaller and lighter than Panchros.

Image-wise, there's no question Panchros are superior, but you'll have to decide for yourself how much so.

*Thanks for the correction on the 25mm avro. I skipped that lens in my set.
 
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zeiss CP.2 25mm is T2.9
Zeiss CP.2 except for 18mm are FULL FRAME
ZEiss CP.2 have 50mm MACRO and 100mm MACRO
 
If you have the money, the Cookes are the way to go. Not having consistent stop across on the CPs is a big deal on real jobs...especially that 18mm. Also limits their ability to rent.
 
Zeiss are releasing new 15mm T2.9 and 18mm T2.9 this year.
For the money they rent very well...
 
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thanks for all the feed back. they will be for our use only not for rent, other than some taking the entire package and one of us with it. how is the color and mechanics between the two brands?
 
The panchros are unmother------g-believably beautiful. But if I were buying owner/operator lenses. Id go zeiss. They are $20,000 cheaper.

What you pay for with panchros is image quality. Yes they are a T2.8, but you get the image quality of S4's. I'm talking sharpness, contrast, color matching and flare performance. Let me give an example. The 18mm panchro does not distort at all. Switching from any longer length on a panchro like a 32mm to a wider 18mm looks like you backed the camera up on the 32mm. You never get that "wide angle" look. Perspective is retained and natural, and faces don't look bloated or elongated. It has to be seen to be understood. I recently took some students at the abel cine tech AF100 bootcamp in NY out to shoot some test images with a 12mm S4. The footage looked normal and natural. Noone could tell what the focal length was.

This is the performance you get from the cookes. Yes there are faster lenses, but nothing performs like the cookes.
 
dcarstens said:
Speaking strictly in terms of logistics, the Panchros are T2.8 across the board, while all but the 18, 21, and 25mm of the CP.2s are T2.1 (18mm is T3.5, 21/25mm are T2.9).
The gearing on the Panchros is extremely fluid, CP.2s feature a bit more resistance.
Aside from price and aperture difference, the CP.2's main advantage is they are far smaller and lighter than Panchros.

Image-wise, there's no question Panchros are superior, but you'll have to decide for yourself how much so.

*Thanks for the correction on the 25mm avro. I skipped that lens in my set.
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Its hard to shoot a music video on panchros. They don't give you the "WOW look how insane that lens is" look. They give you the "my god the talent looks beautiful in that shot" look. This is why we have different sets. :)

My duclos 11-16 @ 16mm looks waaaaay "wider" than the 18mm panchro. It is only slightly wider but the distortion exaggerates its effect.
 
jcoxshooter said:
Putting together our F3 and wanted feed back on these two lens Cooke Panchro Prime vs Zeiss Compact Prime. We are going to buy a complete set of one or the other. I have worked with Zeiss Super Speeds of course loved them. Have not had my hands on either of these, any feed back would be great.
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For the price of new Cookes you can get some great used Super Speeds... is that not an option?
 
Technically yes joe, but susper speeds haven't been manufactured for 30 years. IE its extremely difficult to maintain them. I considered it when buying a set, but the maintenece costs ontop of loan payment meant I would never make money on them. New lenses will give you several years of service befor any major repairs.
 
I'm an authorized dealer for both Zeiss and Cooke optics so take this with a grain of salt. Both Zeiss and Cooke lens sets are excellent, but you'll have to decided which criteria is most important to you.

I have a TV series client shooting A/B camera 5D-PLs, they need the Vistavision image circle of the Zeiss CP.2s, that's most important for them so they go Zeiss.

I have another who loves with what he calls "the creamy Cooke look", and really wanted something longer than 85mm, even though they hadn't planned to spend as much, they are glad they did.

Cooke Panchros/i lenses exact color matches for S4 lenses. As Zeiss CPs/CP.2 are a color match for Ultra and Master primes.

FWIW yesterday, I shot with an unusual set of 25+ year old PL mount cine lenses. By all accounts you could say that they are "inferior" to modern lenses in all primary criteria except size and weight, but really you have to decided what lenses are best for you and the work you plan to do with them.

Where the old lenses right for the job? Yes. Would I use these lenses all the places I would use CPs or Pancho/i lenses? No. I bring this up just because a lot of your lens selection will be subjective as to what is right for you. Anything can look good in a vacuum, really what you'll want to do is test the lenses you are considering, the you know for certain.

My suggestion is to find someone with both sets and shoot a test. You're probably only about 1.5 to 2-hours from A.C. Inc. in Nashville, http://www.acincnashville.com/ If you ask them real nice, they might let you shoot a test in their shop. If you're ever out in LA you're always welcome make an appointment to shoot one at Hot Rod Cameras.
 
I didn't know that either. Is it just the coatings that make them match? Based on what I've been told, the CP.2s are basically just rehoused Zeiss still lenses, with new coatings and more aperture blades. I thought their still lenses would be designed in a completely different department by different people. That's cool that they match though
 
According to FAQ @ Compact Primes CP.2...

Q: Are the Compact Prime CP.2 lenses color matched?
A: The Compact Prime CP.2 lenses are color matched with all other Carl Zeiss cine lenses.

Q: What is the difference between “Color Matched” and “Super Color Matched”?
A: All ZEISS cine lenses are “Color Matched”. The tolerances are based on the DIN standards. “Super Color Matched” means even tighter tolerances for Master Primes and Ultra Primes.

Interesting reading, though!

http://www.zeiss.com/cine

Interchangable mount lenses > Compact Primes CP.2 > Frequently Asked Questions

Cheers!
 
considering ultra primes don't even really match well to one another, i don't really know what cp2's would be matching too :)

but i just assume it's the cooler, moderate to high contrast look people flock to zeiss for.
 
tom.wong said:
considering ultra primes don't even really match well to one another, i don't really know what cp2's would be matching too :)

but i just assume it's the cooler, moderate to high contrast look people flock to zeiss for.
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People flock to Zeiss because it is reputable reliable Optical Company with very nice range of Optical Products.
I find CP.2s to be great value for money Primes. Sure there are better Products for more money. Regarding UltraPrimes-just look at Range of Lenses with Optical and built quality....
There are many fantastic lenses around....anyway all "looks" can be easily changed in Post to Everyones Liking...:thumbsup:
 
avro said:
People flock to Zeiss because it is reputable reliable Optical Company with very nice range of Optical Products.
I find CP.2s to be great value for money Primes. Sure there are better Products for more money. Regarding UltraPrimes-just look at Range of Lenses with Optical and built quality....
There are many fantastic lenses around....anyway all "looks" can be easily changed in Post to Everyones Liking...:thumbsup:
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I'd like to see someone go into post and adjust bokeh shape, iris leaf design, flare qualities, and etc. Color, perhaps you can get away with fully, but optics aren't to be left for post. I'd disagree for the most part.

CinemaElectronika said:
Q: What is the difference between “Color Matched” and “Super Color Matched”?
A: All ZEISS cine lenses are “Color Matched”. The tolerances are based on the DIN standards. “Super Color Matched” means even tighter tolerances for Master Primes and Ultra Primes.

Interesting reading, though!
Click to expand...

I've always found it strange and humorous to have two color matched tiers. Everything is color matched to a point, so I find it funny. Even 'color matched' lenses can differ on how much so, so it's really a matter of needing to be tested. If you read the lens reviews of the SALT tests at RedUser, you'll see the Cooke S4's were the most highly regarded color matched lenses from the test. That is what I gathered, anyhow.
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
I'd like to see someone go into post and adjust bokeh shape, iris leaf design, flare qualities, and etc. Color, perhaps you can get away with fully, but optics aren't to be left for post. I'd disagree for the most part.



I've always found it strange and humorous to have two color matched tiers. Everything is color matched to a point, so I find it funny. Even 'color matched' lenses can differ on how much so, so it's really a matter of needing to be tested. If you read the lens reviews of the SALT tests at RedUser, you'll see the Cooke S4's were the most highly regarded color matched lenses from the test. That is what I gathered, anyhow.
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There is nothing wrong with Zeiss MP & UP optics.
Just because some guys are running humble Panchro Rentals does not mean Zeis is a lesser product.
 
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