Converting Footages: B&W Issue

givemefood

givemefood

Well-known member
Friends,

Im making a documentary-style short film and i wanted to finish the product in B&W.
I used some tips from this forum and took couple test shots over the weekend. I adjusted the Master Ped and a few other things for these shots.

The original footages looked ok, nothing great. But when i converted the shots to B&W in post, a lot of grey or lighter colors are appearing 'nearly' white thereby matching with the skin color of the character. I tried a few different things... and still unable to 'tone down' the white.

Please look at the frames to understand my issue. What can i do during production to avoid this issue? And if it does occur, how can i correct it in post?

Please advise. Thank you.

Original Frames:
http://rameshanthony.com/projects/current/test_files/Original1.JPG
http://rameshanthony.com/projects/current/test_files/Original2.JPG
http://rameshanthony.com/projects/current/test_files/Original3.JPG

Converted Frames:
http://rameshanthony.com/projects/current/test_files/ProcessedTypeA1.JPG
http://rameshanthony.com/projects/current/test_files/ProcessedTypeA2.JPG
http://rameshanthony.com/projects/current/test_files/ProcessedTypeA3.JPG

http://rameshanthony.com/projects/current/test_files/ProcessedTypeC1.JPG
http://rameshanthony.com/projects/current/test_files/ProcessedTypeC2.JPG
http://rameshanthony.com/projects/current/test_files/ProcessedTypeC3.JPG
 
It sucks that active participants to this forum do not have a resolution to the issue i've documented here.

Don't we have some technically savvy ppl here?
 
One of the downsides of the DVX is the high knee, so make sure to turn your knee to low. Tell us how you adjusted your pedestal. What frame mode did you shoot in? As it stands I see very little solution to getting what you want in post. You have to capture closer to what you want initially. You could film her in the shade while he is in the sun if it has to be done outside. Thrown a reflector on him and leave her alone is another option for outside, but it has to be sunny. Or you could film indoors and just throw less light on her. One more thing. Turn you viefinder to Black and White and use it instead of the LCD that way you can judge your frame before you even hit record!!! Don't ever think you can fix everything in post. It looks to me like you slapped on about 3-4 mb presets to get that narly image. Less is more. Your original image is too blown out. Try getting a darker image next time and this will give you more freedom in post tweaking the image. If it's too light you have lost any information. If it is a little dark there is still information to find in the image.

-Kevin
 
B&w

B&w

What software are you using to convert to B&W? It looks like Magic Bullet. Here's an example taken from Vegas. This example looks video like still. If you want you could throw magic bullet on top of this and get that stylized look. That should give you great render times.

http://bullyfilms.com/fix.jpg
 
I gave it a shot ....

Yeah don't use magic bullet until you've done your initial corrections with you cc tools in your editing suite. MB really can blow out the whites on some images.

Original
Original1.JPG

Tweaked
33912292362.jpg

Original
ProcessedTypeA1.JPG

Tweaked
33912295216.jpg

Tweaked with MB Sephia
33912473338.jpg

Tweaked even more but you can see the footage starting to degrade:
33912301225.jpg


Just mess around with it.

Better to get closer to the image you want initially though, becasue the more you tweak the more information you lose = muddy footage.
 
Kevin... i appreciate your response.
I didn't mean to offend anyone. I was just a bit frustrated because i've received responses to issues instantly in the past.

Anyway, i shot 24P, -7 on Master Pedestal, -3 on Detail, and OFF on shutter speed. I did not adjust any other settings.

I'll try what you recommended this weekend and see how it goes.

Thank you.
 
i dont really like MB but i did use it for testing... And you're right it did glow the white portion excessively. I try to use Vegas for corrections.
 
Here is my pass at one of the images:
Original2.JPG

Original
modified_2.jpg

My version

What exactly are you hoping to accomplish for this scene?
 
This is a test shot, not a scene from the film. Im tryin to finalize 'generic' settings for my film.....

But i do agree with Kevin, she's whiter than other white chicks.
 
givemefood said:
Anyway, i shot 24P, -7 on Master Pedestal, -3 on Detail, and OFF on shutter speed. I did not adjust any other settings.
Click to expand...

Why did you have the shutter off? This is something that you might want to do if you are in a very low light situation, or perhaps if you really want to exaggerate motion blur, but in a static two shot? I don't see any reason for this.
 
It's all good. I hope I didn't come across too harsh. I really appreciate all the stuff I've learned from this forum and try not to take it for granted. What's the documentary about if you don't mind telling? If you still have trouble getting the look you want let me know and I'll tell you what setting I think you should adjust. I don't have all the answers to cc . The look you want is gonna be diffenent than the look others would want so just play around with it a lot. Also you could adjust the pedestal to +7 to +15 if you want her skin color to be closer to his, but it would give you less contrast. In fact the whole image would be more grey.

-Kevin
 
Just a thought... all the B+W filters that you've applied all look to have added diffusion somewhere along the line (most of the Magic Bullet presets have white diffusion added). The white diffusion ends up giving a soft whimsical feel to the image. Now I've never been homeless, but I'm pretty sure it isn't whimsical. I would take the diffusion completely out, give it a colder and dryer look, but that's just me.
Anyway, the diffusion that Magic Bullet adds will take everything above a certain threshold in the image and kind of crunch it all into whites, so you have to be careful with it.

Pasty
 
image1.jpg


Just a quick example of my previous comment (this may not be at all what you're going for, but it seemed to help at least a little bit with the separation).
 
khmuse said:
Why did you have the shutter off? This is something that you might want to do if you are in a very low light situation, or perhaps if you really want to exaggerate motion blur, but in a static two shot? I don't see any reason for this.
Click to expand...


Huh? "Off" is the natural state of the camera, the default speed, the sine qua non of things not to worry about.
 
GenJerDan said:
Huh? "Off" is the natural state of the camera, the default speed, the sine qua non of things not to worry about.
Click to expand...

"Off" is a poor label for this mode, when in fact the term should be "default". Off for a 24 fps project would imply a shutter of 1/24 of a second or no shutter at all (acquiring during the full frame cycle). What you are saying is that "off" is actually a shutter speed of 1/60th of a second (which is equivalent to a shutter angle of 144 degrees, far from "off"). If in fact he is using a 1/60th of a second shutter, this is perfectly acceptable for a 24 fps project.
 
Yep. Or, sort of. "Off" in 24p/pa is 1/50th second according to the book. (Although, for some reason, I think it is really 1/48th)
 
givemefood said:
It sucks that active participants to this forum do not have a resolution to the issue i've documented here.

Don't we have some technically savvy ppl here?
Click to expand...

Are you kidding me?

I didn't mean to offend anyone. I was just a bit frustrated because i've received responses to issues instantly in the past.
Click to expand...

Sorry none of our members were available for an immediate resolution to your problem. I oughta axe this thread.... (must have control)

What's the problem here? I would suggest shooting and lighting like you would for any other project and simply converting to B + W in post; it's not rocket science and should'nt be given you a headache.

It appears to me you are getting manic about the sleightest detail. Change it to B + W and pay attenton to your Levels. Done.

Kevin has given you some nice examples and they all look nice.

And try not and have all that interlacing on the real thing.
 
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