converting 1080 into 720

Ordinarily, I'd agree with Barry on this one - but, as the Machinist pointed out, the Playstaion 3 is the x-factor in the equation. Remember when the Dreamcast came out? It was is in every way a better machine than the playstation2, except 1 - it couldn't play DVD's, and the playstation could. And that was the Christmas season when DVDs absolutely exploded (and a time when most players cost $100+) - and most people figured, heck I'll get a Playstation + a DVD with one purchase.

So, the P3 could have a real impact on all of this - at least it should factor into your considerations.

But, there is a caveat to all of these discussions (and something I wonder about too) - will the American public really want to hear that all those DVDs they been buying and burning over the past 7 years are obsolete? I know I don't like hearing that (even if it is true).

I think that whatever technology becomes king, it will have done so because it also allows for backward compatibility, for many of the reasons Barry talked about earlier (ease of use, etc.). Just my 2 cents...
John
 
jdv said:
............. - will the American public really want to hear that all those DVDs they been buying and burning over the past 7 years are obsolete?

I think that whatever technology becomes king, it will have done so because it also allows for backward compatibility, ..............
Click to expand...
Both Blu-ray and HD DVD will allow the playing of conventional DVDs (and CDs) I believe, so whilst ones collection may no longer be state of the art, it won't be obsolete in the way DVD rendered VHS.
 
jdv said:
Ordinarily, I'd agree with Barry on this one - but, as the Machinist pointed out, the Playstaion 3 is the x-factor in the equation. Remember when the Dreamcast came out? It was is in every way a better machine than the playstation2, except 1 - it couldn't play DVD's, and the playstation could. And that was the Christmas season when DVDs absolutely exploded (and a time when most players cost $100+) - and most people figured, heck I'll get a Playstation + a DVD with one purchase.

So, the P3 could have a real impact on all of this - at least it should factor into your considerations.
Click to expand...

Sony's marketing department killed the Dreamcast, not the fact that the PS2 could also play DVDs. The DC launched a year before the PS2 did but it was pretty much DOA as Sony, and it's super-hyped "emotion engine" powered PS2, pretty much had everyone keeping their wallet in their pocket. The fact that the PS2 played DVDs was just a bonus, IMO. If the PS2 lacked a DVD player and/or the DC had a DVD player the outcome wouldn't have changed.

I also think drawing a comparison between the PS2(w/DVD) and the PS3(w/Blu-ray) isn't really apples to apples. The PS2 hopped on the coattails of the already popular DVD format while the PS3 will try introduce a new format to the masses.

HD is here, and will only continue to grow (if for no other reason than the government mandate to go digital), but I wouldn't be surprised if HD-DVD & Blu-ray both floundered and another delivery method became the first solid consumer standard for HD.

And even though this may sound stupid, there is nothing "cool" or "hip" about a 12cm(?) optical disc anymore. Is it a CD? A DVD? An HD-DVD? A Blu-Ray DVD? There's no superficial gadget-freak/gee-whiz/impress your friends & neighbors feeling to it.


-A
 
I also think drawing a comparison between the PS2(w/DVD) and the PS3(w/Blu-ray) isn't really apples to apples. The PS2 hopped on the coattails of the already popular DVD format while the PS3 will try introduce a new format to the masses.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. However it is a format the PS3 owners will have to become accustomed to since PS3 games will be on Blu-ray desks. So at least for the system's medium Blu-ray will have a market. Granted it does not mean that Blu-ray will be adopted for any other purpose but it'll help.

Out of curiosity does anyone know how the sales of UMD disks for Sony's PSP are doing? The UMD doesn't seem to have a life outside of Sony's handheld system but if it can manage to stick around for a few years so can Blu-ray.

I for one would love to see some other storage or delivery option for media aside from vulnerable disks.
 
jdv said:
- will the American public really want to hear that all those DVDs they been buying and burning over the past 7 years are obsolete? I know I don't like hearing that (even if it is true).
Click to expand...

Yes, it makes you think twice about buying DVDs willy-nilly when HD is just around the corner. I know everything I own in DVD now I would want to replace in HD because I want to have an experience as close as possible to the first time I saw it in the theatre. The Terminator 2 Extreme DVD in HD WM9 convinced me of that. Wow, what a home experience when played big!

Even some TV series would be a hoot in HD, if only because you could see them in a way they've never been seen before. Not to date myself, but I was exposed to the original Star Trek via a crappy antenna in B&W from a TV station 50 miles away. Then later in college I saw a showing of a 16mm print of one of the episodes. Suddenly, the high-key-by-the-book 3-point lighting, the cheesy sets and costumes, thick pan-cake make-up and diffusion filtered female co-stars was crystal clear.

Think of all the distributors secretly rubbing their hands in joy, waiting for the public to replace their 80 DVD set of Friends, Sienfield, Star Trek, etc. with brand new HD versions... the DVD buying frenzy will fire up all over again, this time, for all practical purposes, the last, as nothing more in terms of perceivable quality could be squeezed from the negatives.

Regards,

Jim Arthurs
 
Wait a minute I just got a vision, having a Blu-ray built into a PS3 is really a cool Idea. Think about for a minute:

New movie comes out and is released in Hi-def not only can you watch it on your PS3 in HD but also PLAY the game version too in HD, all in a seamless fashion.,

Heck why not put both the movie and game in one disk so it intercuts, ie you could have a "passive" mode where you just watch the movie , or an "active" mode where you watch and be part of the action *drooling" with future of possibilties :)

One thing is for sure HD is being pushed here very hard, every high store is displaying nothing but HD sets..... 40", 60" etc, and SkyHD is always advertised as comming soon, and PS3, Xbox360 are already HD ready, and HD/BR DVD are around the corner AND consumer HD camcorders are becoming available.

Adoption works like a virus theorum, New tech is expensive so only people with deep pockets buy them, others follow to compete, demands rise, costs falls, this fuels further demands with in turn drives costs down further untill a critical mass is reached.

What can I say Hype works, did you see the television advertising experiments done in rural india many years ago?

Anyhow, how long it will take is anyones guess, but alot of companies have lots invested in HD , so there is alot to lose and gain.
 
Anhar Miah said:
One thing is for sure HD is being pushed here very hard, every high store is displaying nothing but HD sets..... 40", 60" etc, .................

Anyhow, how long it will take is anyones guess, but alot of companies have lots invested in HD , so there is alot to lose and gain.
Click to expand...
Anhar is quite right. HD in the UK has started later than in the US, Japan, Australia etc, BUT it means that it is launching with mature equipment from the start. Less than a year ago, NO screens were advertised as HD capable, and even many large plasmas didn't have HD resolution. Looking around a big store yesterday, EVERY screen over about 25" was full "HDready", with about 12-14 screens being sourced HD off harddrives. With broadcasts not due to even start for another couple of months, and then only from the main satellite broadcaster, that's truly remarkable.

Anhars last sentence is dead right, and with blue laser only just becoming a saleable product, I can't believe the manufacturers will just shelve it and wait a few more years until they have something better to offer.
 
But the majority of those screens don't have HDMI inputs, which render them useless for Blu-Ray distribution.
 
SPZ said:
But the majority of those screens don't have HDMI inputs, which render them useless for Blu-Ray distribution.
Click to expand...
Not true. To have an "HDready" sticker and be on sale in Europe, a screen MUST come equipped with HDMI and HDCP, and meet certain other requirements. This is what I meant when I said that although Europe is launching later, it's launching with more mature equipment from the start, and all transmissions will be H264.

For full details, the EBU spec of what's meant by "HDready" can be found at: http://www.ebu.ch/en/technical/trev/trev_301-editorial.html

Quote:
"........as this editorial was being written, the members of EICTA (the trade body representing the consumer electronics industry in Europe) have just agreed an HD-ready label to help consumers understand whether a particular display is ready for HDTV. In essence, this HD-ready label can only be attached to displays that meet the following conditions:

have a minimum of 720 horizontal lines;
accepts HD inputs via:
analogue YPbPr, and;
DVI or HDMI;
can accept 720p/50, 720p/60, 1080i/25 and 1080i/30 inputs;
the DVI or HDMI input supports content protection (HDCP). "
 
harddrive said:
Anhars last sentence is dead right, and with blue laser only just becoming a saleable product, I can't believe the manufacturers will just shelve it and wait a few more years until they have something better to offer.
Click to expand...

I don't think they are going to abandon it, but that doesn't mean it will be a rousing success. HD-DVD or Blu-ray will fail. I don't think there's room in the market place for both. And by the time one "wins" what will the consumer landscape look like? Looking at things like the iTunes Music Store show that customers are more than willing to sacrifice quality for convince. Physical distribution is going to be around for a while, but it's going to start facing competition download distribution sooner rather than later, IMO. In the US everything is going to go digital eventually because of government mandate. But if it was up to the market alone the demand just isn't there. There's no "killer app" if you will. Just having a better looking picture isn't a very strong selling point to consumers (especially when it means they have to upgrade their TV, DVD player, and re-buy their movies in HD). Just compare the iTMS to DVD-A or SACD to see an example of what customers are willing to pay for and what they aren't.

This may be something or it may be nothing, but the PS3 is the only next gen console to offer HiDef games and movie playback. Xbox 360 is just HD games and the Nintendo Revolution is still only going to be SD.

I wish "HD ready" meant in the states what it means in the UK 'cause over here very few TVs on the market have HDMI. So most of the US early adopters are SOL.


Lethal
 
harddrive said:
Anhars last sentence is dead right, and with blue laser only just becoming a saleable product, I can't believe the manufacturers will just shelve it and wait a few more years until they have something better to offer.
Click to expand...

I don't think they are going to abandon it, but that doesn't mean it will be a rousing success. HD-DVD or Blu-ray will fail. I don't think there's room in the market place for both. And by the time one "wins" what will the consumer landscape look like? Looking at things like the iTunes Music Store show that customers are more than willing to sacrifice quality for convince. Physical distribution is going to be around for a while, but it's going to start facing competition download distribution sooner rather than later, IMO. In the US everything is going to go digital eventually because of government mandate. But if it was up to the market alone the demand just isn't there. There's no "killer app" if you will. Just having a better looking picture isn't a very strong selling point to consumers (especially when it means they have to upgrade their TV, DVD player, and re-buy their movies in HD). Just compare the iTMS to DVD-A or SACD to see an example of what customers are willing to pay for and what they aren't.

This may be something or it may be nothing, but the PS3 is the only next gen console to offer HiDef games and movie playback. Xbox 360 is just HD games and the Nintendo Revolution is still only going to be SD.

I wish "HD ready" meant in the states what it means in the UK 'cause over here very few TVs on the market have HDMI. So most of the US early adopters are SOL.


-A
 
The HD talk is going on for ten years in Europe, they show all the stuff at every IBC and prof magazine, and still nobody is buying (experiments excluded) the stuff or is broadcasting it. The first satellite HD is just starting.

If the HD market for Europe is almost not existing -but mature-, the global market development is slowing down. Then, you have today a lot of 16:9 TV sets who are LCD or Plasma but not capable of showing you High Definition. This -just bought- TV set will stay there for 5 years to come. You can not compare the HD formats with VHS to DVD migration. DVD gives a better image compared with VHS, is smaller to store, easy to copy and you can play it on your normal SD TV set and computers. Big advantage!

HD does not bring you the same. You have to invest in a new TV set. The ´HD ready´ TV sets just coming in. It will take years... for HD to enter the homes. Is it for the acceptance of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray equipment, for the new TV sets and the small number of HD broadcasting.
 
And what about the fuss of those protections... Like half of the actual HDTVs aren´t going to work; or if somebody in other countrie crack your kind of player then nobody will be able to play content...

Then you say it to your family, then to your friends, then to your neighbours. At the end it will be a big fiasco if they keep it like this. They will have to give us some options to make us buy...
 
Was it always common knowledge that Panny is supporting and developing Blu-ray technology?

If so i missed that tid bit.
 
Adoption? For me, the Green Barry's 51% is not enough (though a reasonable number). A lot of my work involves music videos that people use as demos. The clients won't know if the potential viewers will have HD playback capability until that number reaches closer to 90%. Many large foundations and other organizations still accept only VHS, because not all of their reviewers have DVD capability.

In the early days of CD-R, playback issues were rampant and no-one in their right mind would send a CD-r instead of a tape with an application, even to the few places that allowed the option. And it took five or six years for CD-R submissions to become standard. Not 5 years after CDs were introduced... 5 years after recordable CDs became popular.

So, in Pro markets, among potential viewers who know how to deal with the different technologies, yes, "adoption" may be sooner... but for any application where you need to send out something to be watched by "average consumers" in general, it'll be quite a few years before any of the HD disc formats are reasonably safe.

I mean, I can't tell you how many DVDs have been returned to me as defective, because they wouldn't play in a customer's CD player...

Barry
 
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