Convergent Design: Please hire new engineers

jamesc

Well-known member
An Open Letter to Dan Keaton/Convergent Design:


Dear Dan Keaton/Convergent Design,


Thank you for not only all the hard work and effort that you've put into being an innovative and pioneering startup in the world of film, but for also dreaming big and fighting to make technology accessible to more people. You're doing on the indie/prosumer level what the high end and professional market seems to refuse to deliver below their current market base. You've breathed life into a product that many of us spent countless nights researching, begged our partners to invest in, only to feel abandoned and stilted by the large corporate politics that mades us the same promises. But thanks to you, we might actually have the 4-5 year product cycle that we originally hoped for when investing into our cameras.


And also thank you for the brilliant hire of Mitch Gross, an established maven in the tech space who's passion for tech and ability to address to a vocal community meant volumes about how much you believed in listening to your customers. While he receives a hard time on this board, I honestly believe that anyone who has interacted with Mitch or seen his postings knows he's genuinely working as hard as he can to deliver us a product that will exceed our expectations. You, Mr. Keaton, who was answering our questions in the beginning have hired just the right person to build the community forward.


All that being said, Mr. Keaton, please fire your lead engineers now. While your product was "first" to market with its announcements and release, the development and release cycle of the O7Q is in a horribly sad state. If you look at my post history, there was a time I tried to defend your engineers and the complexities of software dev involved. But the excuses of "it's harder than it looks" are now completely moot. Those arguments were possibly relevant 6 months ago, during a time when you were also addressing hardware manufacturing issues. But your product cycle is now almost entirely software based, and I have to call this out, your engineers are not holding up their end of the bargain. A cameraman was able to hack the F5 for internal XVAC 4k recording. A small group of unpaid developers have reversed engineered Canon's firmware to allow RAW on their cameras, working purely on trial and error. Your engineers not only chose the CPU that you're working with, but have build and have 100% access to the codebase. By all accounts, with its small and agile dev team, should be crushing anyone on the market for delivering software update cycles. Instead, you fall further and further behind your competition.


But worst of all, rather than admitting fault for their incompetence, your engineers cower behind Mitch and yourself, constantly throwing excuses which Mitch then tries his best to relay in a PR manner. Want to see a good example of smart engineers that are bold enough to respond to tough questions from their paying and knowledgeable community? Check out the brilliant devs working not the biased ray-tracing 3D rendering engine Redshift. They get shot questions about theoretical Siggraph advancements from their competitors, and are not only able to answer them intelligently, but have software update cycles measured in days. DAYS.


I've worked at tech companies big and small, and if a product cycle fell behind, as a lead engineer, I always personally asked to explain first-hand to our customers why it was that we missed a deadline. As the person coding with deep knowledge of the technical issues that we faced, I understood exactly why we were falling behind and was the best at explaining. It's not like the PR guys, marketing, PMs or CEO could program. I've worked with several engineers and leads who cower behind their PMs or PR for explaining. Want to know why they didn't bother explaining the technical reasons for the lag? Because they knew the rest of us could easily call them out for it and they'd lose their jobs.


A7s, Atomos Shogun, Panasonic GH4 and new internal 4K E-mount F700II (or whatever it is), F5 4K internal. Your window is closing fast. While 4K RAW is nice, a lot of us would trade that for 10-bit 4:2:2 in a heartbeat if price/portability/usability were also improved. As a paying customer and early adopter, as well as vocal advocate for the company, please do the hard thing and replace your engineers with those who are up to the task. I have absolutely no doubt there are hundreds, if not thousands, who could do better. Or at the very least, if that seems too harsh, allow your engineers come on this board and explain to us, technically, what is so damn hard about Debayering and writing 4K to 4K ProRes 422 HQ instead of DNG.


Cheers,
James
 
James,

Thank you for the heartfelt letter. 4K ProRes is coming quite soon. Please look for an announcement in the next few days.
 
A cameraman was able to hack the F5 for internal XVAC 4k recording. A small group of unpaid developers have reversed engineered Canon's firmware to allow RAW on their cameras, working purely on trial and error.

I am cautious about jumping into this conversation....but....

I have nothing at all to do with Convergent and do not own an O7Q but have owned a rental company, traveled the world shooting every variety of production from big to small. In 2006, I decided to exercise my design skills and started a tiny manufacturing company mostly developing for other larger companies. I have designed mechanical systems, electronics, and software along the way. Not only as a project manager but actually the one that was laying out circuit boards and searching for components. During these various projects, I have been periodically startled by a "couple of guys hacking a solution". The unique perspective I was able to bring to the table was that I have been both the guy in field hacking my way through problems AND the guy responsible for bringing a commercial product to the market. There is a HUGE difference in creating a entire system compared to creating a band-aid that could potentially conflict with other parts of the system. The more sophistication and maturity a system has, the harder it is to add and change features. A myopic view of a single feature always make it appear to be a simple fix. A broader view can reveal the real complexity of the challenge.

Please understand that I am on the outside of this conversation and not taking sides in any way. It is important, in my opinion, that people understand from someone that is actually a hands-on electrical and mechanical engineer that it is a LOT harder than it appears to be. The hardest part is predicting how long something will take to complete. My business is paying the price for underestimating the release date for our ScatterBOX2 - largely delayed from software challenges. Keep in mind that the ScatterBOX2 is a power management box with a tiny fraction of the complexity - and it has been delayed by many months as the software is completed.

Anyway....to publicly demand the engineers be fired based on knowing almost nothing of the real challenge is silly. To call out the "incompetence" of a team that you have no knowledge of is easy to ignore. Whatever tech companies you have worked for and the rolls you played has nothing to do with the detailed challenges being dealt with by any other company. Requesting the engineers respond to this post and others on any forum is hilarious - not a single one would have any idea what they were talking about. They are deep in the middle of a code jungle that would be hard for any engineer, regardless of cerebral prowess, to just walk into.

You are correct that there may be thousands of software engineers that can write the code, but VERY few that understand the problem they are coding for and how to integrate that into a complete system. If you cannot fully understand the problem, coding skill alone will not help anything. Weekend hackers are not the right elements of a dev team designing a complete system from scratch.

Carlos
 
I'm not sure this is called for. Convergent Design is delivering a cutting-edge product on an accelerated schedule. The only possible benefit to firing the Convergent Design Engineers would be that their competitors would immediately benefit by hiring them! It's highly likely they are the best in the industry.

It's possible the only way for them to ship products faster would be to ship them as "alpha" models, let users do the beta testing, and then put out 10 or 20 firmware updates after the fact. We know this model and we've seen it before. CD is not that kind of company which is probably why Mitch joined them in the first place.

I have no financial involvement with anyone in the sales channel.
 
You're entire argument James is based on assumption. You know more about the process than most people, so you feel you know what's going on. Or rather, NOT going on. However, unless you work for CD or have insider knowledge you are making assumptions.

I used to work in software development and the number one lesson I learned in the 5 years I was in that industry is just because something makes sense/looks straightforward on paper/whiteboard or among a room full of developers...doesn't mean it actually is.

Bottom line is you're calling for some people, human beings, who most likely have family that depend on them, to lose their jobs because you think you know what the "problem" is.

D*ck move dude.
 
I think this is pretty uncalled for.

FGPA development is particularly difficult. Combine that with custom hardware *and* the need to support many many camera platforms then each change can have knock on effects elsewhere. It's not the same as the nice cozy development environments we have on the software side.

Also CD are a fairly small company, it's not a mass market product and don't have the weight of a large corporation behind.

And those lead engineers you want to fire also came up with things like 4K2HD and, well, the whole point.

A little unfair, although frustration is understandable...

cheers
Paul
 
I think we should ask the moderator to give the OP a chance to change the title. It's offensive and uncalled for, though he may have a point here or there the headline is totally misleading. Our community members deserve to be treated better, especially those as helpful and supportive as Mitch, Dan and the whole CD Crew. Who does this guy think he is?
 
I think we should ask the moderator to give the OP a chance to change the title. It's offensive and uncalled for, though he may have a point here or there the headline is totally misleading. Our community members deserve to be treated better, especially those as helpful and supportive as Mitch, Dan and the whole CD Crew. Who does this guy think he is?

+1
 
Well I may not post here on these forums-pretty much at all for that matter, but I feel very disappointed with Convergent Design but not by the reasons the OP was complaining about. CD like many other manufacturers make plans/targets which haven't met the target dates. I can go on and on about Red doing the same. But that isn't a reason to fire the engineers.

I am though disappointed with CD with how long it's taking them to repair my O7q. I created a support ticket on July 31 for hardware issues on the O7q, didn't hear back from CD until August 19. Shipped it to them... and I still don't have it back. Supposedly it was in que for repair "early last week".
Now am I upset? Absolutely.
Do I demand that CD should change their staff around? No.

It's issues like what I'm going through which people should be ticked off at CD for. Not by missing target dates/approximations on features which I'm sure are really tough to create and troubleshoot.
 
@ Chris Kennedy.

Have you reached out to Dan Keaton? He's a very kind man who tries his hardest to be accommodating, probably more so than the in-house staff.

BTW, what was wrong with your 7Q?

This is probably why I'm going to get the F7S, just to avoid another point of failure. My 7Q has been working pretty well, but sometimes when the screen goes blank or some other issue, it freaks me out.
 
@ Chris Kennedy.

Have you reached out to Dan Keaton? He's a very kind man who tries his hardest to be accommodating, probably more so than the in-house staff.

BTW, what was wrong with your 7Q?

This is probably why I'm going to get the F7S, just to avoid another point of failure. My 7Q has been working pretty well, but sometimes when the screen goes blank or some other issue, it freaks me out.

I haven't yet, figure I'd give them a few days before I raise hell-guess I'm a really nice and patient guy.

I was shooting an interview with my fs700, the O7q was recording 4k2HD Prores. And 10 minutes or so into the first take the O7q started flashing like this: 1.jpg
It went back to normal a couple minutes later. And seemed to operate properly until I took it home and transferred the footage. Everything else recorded after (different takes and the rest of that clip) when the monitor looked like that was corrupted-thank God I was recording a backup too!
So I reinstalled the firmware and plugged it into my fs700 and the O7q didn't seem to recognize the camera. TC and audio were going through but the monitor was black, and the buttons were unresponsive (could only turn it off). Then to see if it was my camera or the monitor, I tried just going HD out via the HDSDI then HDMI with different cameras-and had the same black screen.

The funny thing is this was my first gig with the O7q
 
I understand some of the frustration. I'm very thankful I have 4k raw, but even that was very late to be released compared to product announcement. It's a challenge because or options are very limited in choices for products that will deliver what we need at a reasonable price.

i just hope that we end up getting what we need with somewhat of a competitive edge with all these new products coming out... I felt a little robbed when the Panasonic 4k came out and I'm still waiting to get something beside 4k raw... 20min form 512gb gets insane.

Good luck with everything CD. I still love my O7Q, and would still consider future products.
 
The OP is way too harsh, personally I was a little disappointed when the gh4 came out with 4k compressed before the o7q but the 4k2hd and what the o7q does with the fs700 truely makes this camera shine. I would prefer the convergent design team take the time needed to release quality updates.

Keep up the good work CD.
 
Dear Friends,

As you know, Mitch Gross, has been posting information on DVXUser for some time now.

Mitch and Amber are at IBC.

I do not mind the original post, as we certainly deserve some criticism, and we are working hard to correct issues, such as the long delay between releases.

And, I greatly appreciate the thoughts of others.

Dear Chris,

Please call me at: seven-one-nine -- nine three zero -- one three seven six (This number is in the United States)

We provide 24/7 support, so please feel free to call me whenever you read this.

Your Odyssey7Q should have been fixed and returned promptly. Our goal is to fix units in approximately one day.

We will resolve this unacceptable situation immediately.

Respectfully,



Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Dear Chris,

Great!

I have responded to your email and we will have this resolved promptly.

Respectfully


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
I´m not yet a CD customer, but the way CD communicates here on DVXuser builds my trust in their commitment. Good job.
 
I think the OP was a bit harsh but I'm finding that (throughout the industry, not just with CD) the speculative marketing campaigns of companies are a bit tiring and frustrating and really end up costing people a lot of money.

It's great that a product maybe at some point will have a feature, but don't market it as a selling point until the feature actually exists. I know that the O7Q has pretty much caught up on their claims finally with this 4k release, but what's next? I don't even want to ask what's next I want the feature to be announced when it's ready, and if there is no other solution then great, we don't need to be spoiled any more. if it doesn't exist at the time, then it doesn't exist and find a work around.

it seems to be the fad now for companies to tout what their products will do in their lifecycle and then we all sit around and wait for it to happen, while getting frustrated in the meantime. it also leads to speculation on the behalf of the consumers to say "oh well feature XYZ is coming, why can't they implement feature ABC as well?!" instead of it being a clear cut, this is what exists and it exists now and nothing else exists yet.

maybe i'm not getting my thoughts out right, but it is something that's bugging me a lot right now as things seem to be changing so fast with many companies, and they're all competing for PR and buzz it seems
 
I want the feature to be announced when it's ready

The market it too competitive for this, especially when it's not clear when development milestones will be achieved. Cutting-edge development is not a linear path, so companies put their best guess out there and hope that they are able to achieve things on time. ( the software industry has been like this for decades )
 
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