Convergent-Design Apollo problem

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dbwolfe

Active member
I created a support ticket already with Convergent-Design but I wanted to post here in case anyone else has experienced this issue. Below is what I wrote to CD:

"Hello, My Apollo has been working flawlessly for close to a year but now I have a massive problem. The power on button doesn't seem to work, I have to physically insert the power cable to power on the unit. The unit will show color bars every time I plug the power cord in but will only fully boot every third time or so. In addition, once the unit fully boots it is only in single stream mode and shows the message "Apollo Quad Boot Failed. Please Try Again". If I select Quad HD (which is why I purchased the unit) The device will say "Restarting" but will not restart, just goes to black screen. I need the issue fixed at once, the unit displays "Warranty: 2020 Aug 21". Please advise."

I actually just purchased the Atomos Shogun 7 to use until the Apollo is fixed (since the Shogun 7 has Quad record enabled now). I'm considering selling the Apollo once it is fixed bc I really don't have faith in CD as a company anymore (feels like they might be on the way out), and I've never been a fan of the FAT32/CD Transfer tool issue. I want to be able to hand over files instantly without that unnecessary copy/stitch step. In addition, the audio from my 4 cameras has never been in sync with the video on the Apollo recordings, hasn't been a huge issue for me bc I record sound separately on a MixPre-6 with timecode, but still, for such an expensive piece of equip I find this unacceptable from the Apollo.

Just curious if anyone else has had a similar experience? I just feel like it's time to move on to Atomos.
 
Many people love the device, but I've seen just as many complaints about something going wrong.

Maybe search YouTube to see if you can find your particular issue.

It's hit or miss as some people may have perfect units until they retire them.

And even though Atomos dominates the industry as far as different recorders and users, not every product of theirs (or any company's) is perfect either.
 
CD as a company was always very customer oriented and responsive, not to mention very innovative. But I never had confidence in the Odyssey/Apollo line. The nanoFlash was a great product that was really solid(I still carry mine, just in-case), but everyone I knew with an Odyssey always had issues and always seemed frustrated with them. They just felt too fragile and finicky, to me, for what they were(are), camera mounted field recorders.
 
I suggest calling Convergent Design directly. A support ticket is good and I'm sure they will get back to you shortly, but there's nothing like speaking to an engineer who may be able to walk you through a solution right there and then.
 
I dont have an odyseey anymore as I moved away from my fs700 but CD has been one of the best companies I have ever dealt with when I had a problem with a corrupted file or even when off brand batteries wouldnt work. Called at 5 am and someone answered the phone for support and license codes. The monitor was always solid for me except a few times the 240fps split cdng corrupted an ssd and was able to recover it. My monitor was dropped twice from 3 plus feet on concrete and only suffered a scratch on the housing. I would never buy a plastic pos from atomos.
 
So I received a response from Jim Beethe at CD today, I guess they were closed yesterday (I was starting to worry). He explained in the support ticket response that my Apollo Boot failure was likely due to a corrupt boot loader in memory or something to that effect. I ended up calling him and he was very helpful, all I had to do was download and reinstall the current firmware and everything was back to normal (duh, I probably should have tried that in the first place!). Anyway, since he was so helpful I decided to ask him a few questions about the Apollo that have been bugging me. Jim responded promptly and thoroughly, but I found his answers a little bit odd, sorta like he was saying "oh well... you'll just have to deal with things as they are". Not exactly what I want to hear about $3200 piece of equipment. My Shogun 7 arrives on Thurs and I'm eager to compare the two, I'm sure there will be pros and cons to both, and I will just keep both so that I have a backup unit. My questions and Jim's answers are below in case you are wondering.

Jim,
Thanks for your help on the phone today. I reloaded the Apollo firmware and everything seems to be back to normal, phew.
I was wondering if you could answer a few questions though?

• Any chance for a future firmware update to change the disk format from FAT32 to ExFAT? I would love to not have to use the CD Transfer Tool.
• I like the option in the CD Transfer Tool to put "Bad Clips" in a separate folder, that helps me some, but I usually end up with 50 or so takes on a shoot with only about 10 being good, and I would like the option to only copy the "Good Clips", so I don't have to wait for all of the bad clips to copy over when I'm just going to trash them anyway.
• I'm using four Sony cameras and recording Quad 1080p59.94 in ProResLT with 2ch audio. I've noticed that the camera audio is not in sync with the video. This hasn't really been an issue for me bc I have the Apollo feeding timecode to a MixPre-6 and the audio recorded on the MixPre-6 syncs up fine, but I'm just curious why the camera audio is so off?

Dan,
Good Questions, here are my answers.

1. ExFat upgrade - The base program code used with the Odyssey has a lot in common with our legacy recorders (Nanoflash/Gemini), so it is over ten years old. And in computer program code, ancient. Not quite hieroglyphics, but you get the implication. To switch over to ExFat, we probably would make other significant upgrades at the same time - HDMI 2.0, the chips inside have been improved so much, well the list would be so huge. But, let's just go with getting ExFat only. At the time this program was written, the owners of ExFAT (Microsoft) was commanding exorbitant prices for their licenses. FAT32 was quite cheap in comparison, ExFat was their bread & butter (Show me the MONEY $$$) Microsoft had lots of millionaires to make! Well, end result is that Convergent Design went with FAT32 formatting at a lower price.

2. It would be an interesting piece of data to determine how many users actually use Bad Clips markers. It was never really seen as a high usage option years ago. And now, with the age of the Odyssey, we are not likely to make any changes to the utilities.

3. Glad to hear that you have a backup for your audio tracks. It is a known issue that our audio sync drifts out over time. We tried for years to trace the program code to fix it, but have since given up and are living with the poor sync and apologizing a whole lot.
 
They are done with working on/updating the recorders, so you'll never see any fixes/changes for them again.

In another thread, Mitch mentioned they are working on something else for the video industry.

Mitch Gross said:
While I am no longer with the company I can tell you that they are still in operation. Development of the Odyssey monitor/recorders has ended but CD still services them. They have been in production for a product for another industry and I believe are developing something else for the video production business.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, that was a thread that I started asking if CD was still in business. I purchased my Apollo almost a year ago after debating the purchase for years. I really love the Apollo for the most part, it does exactly what I need. I just noticed recently that almost all of the support videos on the CD website are gone, and the YouTube links say that the "account no longer exists". As long as my Apollo continues to work and I can get support than I'll be happy, just sad that for the most part the products are EOL, and I was looking forward to the Element switchers that never materialized...
 
There are a lot of products out there that appear to be released in somewhat of a beta phase.

CD really did a lot for this thing. But sometimes for various reasons it just doesn't work out and they took it as far as it could go.

When bigger companies have lots of brain power (coders, engineers, software developers) and lots of money, it's easier for them to bounce back. Some will continuously update their products, and some will even make something completely new and better a year or two later because they've realized their engineering errors and/or created a much better product.

Atomos went from the Shogun --> Shogun/Ninja Flame --> Shogun/Ninja Inferno within 3 years.

It was the same casing (slightly different, very close), but the internal development never stopped. They kept improving it and discontinuing the previous model(s).
 
dbwolfe said:
So I received a response from Jim Beethe at CD today, I guess they were closed yesterday (I was starting to worry). He explained in the support ticket response that my Apollo Boot failure was likely due to a corrupt boot loader in memory or something to that effect. I ended up calling him and he was very helpful, all I had to do was download and reinstall the current firmware and everything was back to normal (duh, I probably should have tried that in the first place!). Anyway, since he was so helpful I decided to ask him a few questions about the Apollo that have been bugging me. Jim responded promptly and thoroughly, but I found his answers a little bit odd, sorta like he was saying "oh well... you'll just have to deal with things as they are". Not exactly what I want to hear about $3200 piece of equipment. My Shogun 7 arrives on Thurs and I'm eager to compare the two, I'm sure there will be pros and cons to both, and I will just keep both so that I have a backup unit. My questions and Jim's answers are below in case you are wondering.

Jim,
Thanks for your help on the phone today. I reloaded the Apollo firmware and everything seems to be back to normal, phew.
I was wondering if you could answer a few questions though?

• Any chance for a future firmware update to change the disk format from FAT32 to ExFAT? I would love to not have to use the CD Transfer Tool.
• I like the option in the CD Transfer Tool to put "Bad Clips" in a separate folder, that helps me some, but I usually end up with 50 or so takes on a shoot with only about 10 being good, and I would like the option to only copy the "Good Clips", so I don't have to wait for all of the bad clips to copy over when I'm just going to trash them anyway.
• I'm using four Sony cameras and recording Quad 1080p59.94 in ProResLT with 2ch audio. I've noticed that the camera audio is not in sync with the video. This hasn't really been an issue for me bc I have the Apollo feeding timecode to a MixPre-6 and the audio recorded on the MixPre-6 syncs up fine, but I'm just curious why the camera audio is so off?

Dan,
Good Questions, here are my answers.

1. ExFat upgrade - The base program code used with the Odyssey has a lot in common with our legacy recorders (Nanoflash/Gemini), so it is over ten years old. And in computer program code, ancient. Not quite hieroglyphics, but you get the implication. To switch over to ExFat, we probably would make other significant upgrades at the same time - HDMI 2.0, the chips inside have been improved so much, well the list would be so huge. But, let's just go with getting ExFat only. At the time this program was written, the owners of ExFAT (Microsoft) was commanding exorbitant prices for their licenses. FAT32 was quite cheap in comparison, ExFat was their bread & butter (Show me the MONEY $$$) Microsoft had lots of millionaires to make! Well, end result is that Convergent Design went with FAT32 formatting at a lower price.

2. It would be an interesting piece of data to determine how many users actually use Bad Clips markers. It was never really seen as a high usage option years ago. And now, with the age of the Odyssey, we are not likely to make any changes to the utilities.

3. Glad to hear that you have a backup for your audio tracks. It is a known issue that our audio sync drifts out over time. We tried for years to trace the program code to fix it, but have since given up and are living with the poor sync and apologizing a whole lot.
Click to expand...

I wish Teradek was as outgoing with customer care. I have a Teradek Cube(forerunner of the Serv) that had quit working(out of warranty). It would power on(power LED), but nothing else, so I called Teradek and talked to them and they told me to send it in, so I did. It did come back working and also with a $100+ bill. For... Reloading the firmware. I actually did a search after that of their own materials and it was a problem that they knew about. BUT instead of telling me to try to reload the firmware at home for free, they milked me for $100.
 
Sad to hear that all those instructional videos I made for CD are gone. That was 100s of hours of work and really key in explaining how many of the features worked. Ah well.

For your audio sync issue, do you know that Apollo has an adjustment for this? It’s called AV Align. Basically, you point all four cameras at something for a sync reference like a clapper slate, hit record and then clap the slate (or even just clap your hands). Then go to the playback menu and into the AV Align menu. From there you can offset the four video feeds to one another as well as separately adjust the four audio feeds as well. The controls are pretty straightforward once you try it for a minute. I did write out the instructions in great detail in the user manual so that can still be downloaded from the same spot you get your firmware update (check the folder for your firmware as I think it’s always thrown in there). I made a nice video showing how to do it but...

The reason for AV Align is that some cameras have some offset as you’ve discovered plus if you use different models or brands of cameras you may find they delay their outputs to different degrees. I think that with a little trial &error this might solve your audio sync issue. Worth giving it a try.
 
I'm not sure if AV Align can fix the problem I have. All 4 of my cameras are in sync without any AV Align bc they are all Sony's outputting 1080p59.94 via direct SDI connection. The audio recorded from each camera is out of sync with its respective camera. As I mentioned, this hasn't really been a problem since I'm recording audio directly to a MixPre-6 but I still find it unacceptable from such a nice piece of equipment.

I now have the Atomos Shogun 7 with firmware 10.4 and have been able to see the difference in the two units. The Apollo is def the more professional of the two. Much more solid feeling & quiet (Shogun 7 fan is audible). I can't even record four streams of 1080p59.94 on the Shogun 7 bc it will only accept SDI Level A in Quad record and my Sony's output Level B! I'm going to keep the Shogun so that I can experiment with ProRes RAW though. The Shogun 7 UI looks nicer but the Apollo UI works faster. Switching to playback mode on the Apollo is instant whereas the Shogun takes a few seconds which can be quite annoying. The SDI connector placement on the Shogun 7 is terrible, much harder to read the labels and connect when the monitor is mounted close to a camera. With the Apollo it's very clear and easy to see every SDI & Label. I much prefer the ExFat formatting and easy file transfer with the Shogun though, no need for any software tool / restitching. Powering is also better out of the box with the Shogun since it has two L battery slots built in.

I'm sure I will discover more as I continue to use both units...
 
dbwolfe said:
I'm not sure if AV Align can fix the problem I have. All 4 of my cameras are in sync without any AV Align bc they are all Sony's outputting 1080p59.94 via direct SDI connection. The audio recorded from each camera is out of sync with its respective camera. As I mentioned, this hasn't really been a problem since I'm recording audio directly to a MixPre-6 but I still find it unacceptable from such a nice piece of equipment.

I now have the Atomos Shogun 7 with firmware 10.4 and have been able to see the difference in the two units. The Apollo is def the more professional of the two. Much more solid feeling & quiet (Shogun 7 fan is audible). I can't even record four streams of 1080p59.94 on the Shogun 7 bc it will only accept SDI Level A in Quad record and my Sony's output Level B! I'm going to keep the Shogun so that I can experiment with ProRes RAW though. The Shogun 7 UI looks nicer but the Apollo UI works faster. Switching to playback mode on the Apollo is instant whereas the Shogun takes a few seconds which can be quite annoying. The SDI connector placement on the Shogun 7 is terrible, much harder to read the labels and connect when the monitor is mounted close to a camera. With the Apollo it's very clear and easy to see every SDI & Label. I much prefer the ExFat formatting and easy file transfer with the Shogun though, no need for any software tool / restitching. Powering is also better out of the box with the Shogun since it has two L battery slots built in.

I'm sure I will discover more as I continue to use both units...
Click to expand...

With AV Align you can offset the audio of each track without changing the video. For instance if the audio is consistently two frames behind the video on every camera this is an easy fix in AV Align. It’s definitely worth exploring as once you define the offset you can leave it forever and only change back if shooting with a different camera. I think it will address your issue (I believe Jim was thinking of something else).
 
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