Considering some Schneider Cine-Xenar lenses... anyone use them?

G

G.P.

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So I'm in search of a new set of lenses for my F3... I have been considering a ton of options... Not looking to break the bank either.

So far I've looked at all these options:

Used Zeiss Standard Speeds
New Zeiss CP.2's
New Cine-Xenar's
Used Canon K-35s
New Red Pro Primes


.... So far I've been trying to factor in everything I possibly can... quality vs. price, longevity, build quality, "rentability", deprecation in value, speed, consistency, ect. So far the winner of all combined has been the Cine-Xenar. No I'm not a Schneider fanboy or anything, in fact I don't think I've ever owned one of their products. I want to get my hands on some to test, but I can't seem to find any DP's that own them or have used them.

Anyone have some working knowledge of these lens? I've seen HD footage from them, they have a really nice quality to them, I know everyone is going to tell me "just go out and rent them for a day" but I also like hearing from others before I'd do something like that. The 18blade iris is just insane, and its the most amazing bokeh effect, very powerful.

Thoughts, comments, have some I can play with? haha
 
For rentablilty I would get an old reliable set of superspeeds.

I really dont think the cine-xenars do well on the rental market, neither do the RPP's because too many people have them and they have the Red brand name which some how discredits them.
The K35's are sweet but too exotic (for me personally I would buy these and never rent them out).

If you can get a good deal on the standards go for it, but the 16mm and 24mm will have some portholing on the s35mm sensor.

Basically, if your going for brand new primes- go for CP's. They seem to rent really well and will have a very long life because of interchangeable mounts- not to mention full frame coverage. And they have the best witness marks out of all the lenses you mentioned.
 
Giuseppe Pugliese said:
So I'm in search of a new set of lenses for my F3... I have been considering a ton of options... Not looking to break the bank either.

So far I've looked at all these options:

Used Zeiss Standard Speeds
New Zeiss CP.2's
New Cine-Xenar's
Used Canon K-35s
New Red Pro Primes


.... So far I've been trying to factor in everything I possibly can... quality vs. price, longevity, build quality, "rentability", deprecation in value, speed, consistency, ect. So far the winner of all combined has been the Cine-Xenar. No I'm not a Schneider fanboy or anything, in fact I don't think I've ever owned one of their products. I want to get my hands on some to test, but I can't seem to find any DP's that own them or have used them.

Anyone have some working knowledge of these lens? I've seen HD footage from them, they have a really nice quality to them, I know everyone is going to tell me "just go out and rent them for a day" but I also like hearing from others before I'd do something like that. The 18blade iris is just insane, and its the most amazing bokeh effect, very powerful.

Thoughts, comments, have some I can play with? haha
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Check out the illumina s35s, new design t1.3 superspeeds $32000 for the set of 5, and lighter than the red pro primes.
 
Great lenses, but again- no one knows what the heck illumina lenses are and what they cost (You and I do, I had a set of s16mm illuminas and loved them)- but because most people dont know about them, it makes them a tough sell.

Seems like "zeiss" has a magic rental quality name- and always rents. So if your really looking for rentabilty first, get the brandname- even if you dont like them as much atheistically.

If you just want lenses yourself and you dont care if they make money, get whatever you want- k35s!
 
You see, I didn't like the CP.2's because I hate the huge difference in Tstop once you go wider... I want consistent T stops or as close to it as possible without spending mucho $$. I shoot wide ranges of setups and I use the 18 and 25mm range a lot, and would hate to have a T3.6 18mm and then a T2.1 50mm... I don't wanna have to relight or over light my scenes just to have my lenses match.

My problem with superspeeds is mostly being able to find a quality set, and a set thats in my price range per lens. I'll find a great set, but hey, you gotta pay some extra bones for those to be a good set, and right now I'm interested in newer and smoother mechanics. I do a lot of dolly movements and tracking shots that need some insane focus pulling feets. I find a lot of lens sets inconsistent with their drag on the focus gears. And If I'm paying to have them all re-lubed and smoothed out... well then theres more money again.

I'm turned on by newer lenses because of their coating consistency and mechanacal consistencies. That to me is important for what I do. I like the cooke/arri in between look that the Xenar's seem to have, and I do like that they cover 5K for later in life. I agree the K-35's are exotic lenses and I would have a hard time pushing those out with a camera, thus why I Xed them from the list early on. And the RPP's just seem to have 0 rentability and or name for themselves for that matter, they actually have a negative impact it seems in peoples heads. I own a RED zoom, and its great for the money I paid, but I'm not sure buying a new set of RPP's would be worth the money in the long run. I dont see people picking RPP's over the Xenar's

Its all about feel and flavor, but I'm trying to see just everything in the same picture, and unfortunately for the moment superspeeds are not up to what I'm looking for. The really nice sets are out of my price range, and those are the only sets I'd really want Zeiss wise.
 
I'd also like to mention that anything above $16,000 is out of my price range that I'm looking, at the moment. So Cooke's are out of the picture to own, right now I have a "subrental" I can do anytime with Panchros, but I'd like to personally own the next quality set I'm looking for. The Lomos are super nice quality and fast lenses, but they also have a high price tag for a relatively low ability to keep its market place. I'm not all about the rental market, I'm trying to find a fine balance of everything. the middle of the road. I know superspeeds are the best for just about everything I'm looking for except price, but hey if I can't afford them, it aint gonna happen. And I refuse to buy a lesser quality set just to own them. I want some good glass with good mechanics.

Which still kind of bring me back to the Xenar's... They have a quality I like, they are matched, they have consistent mechanics, 0 breathing due to the barrel extending a bit (which doesn't bother me). And they are relavitvly fast, and close in consistency with their Tstops.
 
hunter richards said:
Sub out a duclos 11-16mm for the 18mm CP? That little lens also has amazing rentabily on its own.
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That is a good idea, but the range difference from T2.1 to T2.8 is still something I'm not too thrilled about, I'm looking for an "un-noticeable" difference in T-stop between the lenses. The 18mm Xenar is T1.9 which is actually faster than the middle range of the lenses (usually never happens that way) so thats a joy to me, I'd rather be stopping down my wide end, than wishing I could open up more. Also I already own an 18-50 thats T3, I'm looking for faster wider ends, so thats still not on my list. And If I was spending the money on the CP.2's I'd be in the same range for Xenars. I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just explaining why I picked them, thus wanting to find others who have used them before, considering they are very new in the market.
 
I should also mention that I'm not looking to buy all in a standard set, I'm going to buy 3-4 lenses first, then build up from there. Looking at 18, 35, 50 to start (possibly 25 as well). I like the idea of building the set up as time goes on, and growing with my needs. For some smaller features that I shoot, I usually only use about 3-4 prime focal lengths. The bigger features rent full sets from rental houses, and I'd rather it be that way anyway. I'm just looking for some lenses that please my eye, but can also go out with my kit and myself on a smaller feature that couldn't afford rentals of more expensive lens sets.
 
The Cine-Xenar's are very very nice looking for the cost, I have been considering them for the F3 as well, the big issue for me was that barrel extending is a real PITA with your mattebox and filters. Now obviously you know about the issue but you may want to rent and test them first hand to see if you can live with it. The look is awesome!!! Barrel extending not so much... I am leaning toward CP.2's at this point.... I just do not understand Schneider and why the design of these allowed the extension as they could have come up with something better for the breathing.
 
waketek said:
The Cine-Xenar's are very very nice looking for the cost, I have been considering them for the F3 as well, the big issue for me was that barrel extending is a real PITA with your mattebox and filters. Now obviously you know about the issue but you may want to rent and test them first hand to see if you can live with it. The look is awesome!!! Barrel extending not so much... I am leaning toward CP.2's at this point.... I just do not understand Schneider and why the design of these allowed the extension as they could have come up with something better for the breathing.
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They could have easily done an extension inside the barrel much like the CP.2 50mm Macro works, so that the outer size still stays the same... but I guess they went a different direction. The extension doesnt bother me, so long as my matte box is setup for it. The only thing I worry about is how other people deal with the extension. Doesn't seem people like it that much... I'm 90% sure I want these but its that 10% that holds me back, I wish there was another option in the same price range without extension that wasn't CP.2's

mcgeedigital said:
I think Timur was looking at those and bought the new Cooke Panchros instead.
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Hmm might wanna talk to him about this then. Maybe he has some hands on time with them
 
I also just found out at NAB a new Mark II version of the Xenar lenses came out with an all new mechanical working.... I dont know if this means they don't extend anymore (or if they do, maybe less travel) , but I'd love to find out. I'm really a full lens set kinda guy when I'm working with lenses... I really dislike the fact that the 25,21,and 18 are a huge difference in Tstop and as I said early the 18 range is very important to me, along with the 25. I'm sorry It just doesn't work for the way I shoot. I'd kindly ask that people replying stick to why I made this post in the first place... to find out info on the Xenar lenses for use on my F3.
 
Well to be sure there is only 3-4 affordable sets.
RED PRO- heavy,cheap and they work.
XENAR-they do not have SAME T-stop-unproven.
PANCHRO-the best in long run but "slow".

perhaps Russian Lenses are OK- but who knows.

I would only consider Zeiss CP.2 or Panchro.
 
the RED 18-50 did a lot of work out in Africa, shot some great stuff with it, strong little lens. Mechanically I'd like it to be smoother, but for the price, you cant go wrong. I'm just looking for faster lenses now, T2.2's or faster is what I wanna get into T3 is just a little much for me.

My considerations for lenses are still the Xenars or maybe RPP's if I didn't give a care about rentals

Panchros out of my price range, and the CP.2's I already have my beef with. I need consistency or at least close to it as I can get. I also want to be able to buy individual lenses to grow: I can buy RPP's one at a time, same goes for Xenar Mark II's. I wonder if more new PL lenses will be coming out by other companies soon
 
RED PRO battle tested 18mm T1.8 is $3,000.......not bad.
They are heavy but Fast and Cheap. Decisions decisions.
18mm is about 3.2 kgs.......:engel017:
 
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