considering LED and Flo mixed kit

O

Orben

New member
My production experience has been mostly as a part-timer in Post-production.
Final Cut Pro, After Effects, music creation, DVD authoring, etc
I have a sales background and am self-employed.

I have decided to develop a small production company.
Corporate, small to medium size business – online marketing, non-profits and some specialty video for events and such.
I have concluded that it will be best for me to take on the task of acquisition.
Will be purchasing a Sony Ex1r for this purpose and feel confident that I can learn well and fast enough to not embarrass myself. I find the most daunting aspect of putting together the tools for acquisition to be making decisions on lighting.
I believe that many of my lighting needs will center around a one person interview in rooms that are approximately 15x15. Perhaps some two person interviews and there will also likely be some bluescreen. Some of my bluescreen shooting will involve ¾ to full head to toe shots on a 12x16 sheet.

Thru various online searches and discussions with local professionals I have considered using a combo of LED and Flo options.
Budget considerations = $2.5 - $3k (I wish it to be less but don’t see that as likely).

I would greatly appreciate feedback and real world experience in regards to the following setup;
1 Coollights LED600 spot w/softbox for key
1 Coollights LED256 spot for fill (not convinced this unit is best for fill)
2 Coollights Flo units for bluescreen (either 2x55w or 4x55w)
(would love to know that the 2x55w could properly light a blue/greenscreen with subject placed 4-10 feet away from screen but really am not sure if the 4x55w is needed)
I am also not convinced that there may not be a suitable Flo light other than Coollights offering in regards to getting this done well enough at a lower cost.
STANDS: I would also like to know if the $69 stands at Coollights.biz are the best option for all of these lights and what others have used. I am considering purchasing the Bescor battery pack mentioned several times in this forum for the LED lights and so it’s not likely that I would pack a battery on the unit (in regards to weight on stands).

I also have an interest in the Dedolight Ledzilla.
My considerations for this light are for occasional onboard light for Ex1r and as a backlight or fill for the portable studio lighting.
http://www.dedolight.com/www/dedoli...000004OO&id=DL_Ledzilla&mode=search&section=0

I realize that the set-up I have described does not have much “headroom” for large rooms and various challenges. My confidence in learning the acquisition part of production does not extend to larger production challenges. I would not even consider renting larger units – I would pay an experienced cohort that will have both better lighting and camera kit.
And most importantly …… superior experience.

But I have to start somewhere and I thank you all in advance for your suggestions.
 
In their price range, I think the Cool Lights are pretty good, and they (Richard) seems to offer good support. Although you may not need the 4x55 flos for a smaller green screen, you should get them anyway as they are very versatile for other work. If you are shooting a 12x16, you will need the 4x55s. The standard switching lets you use 2 or 4 bulbs. Though the portable versions are much lighter for travel, I would recommend the studio version as being more robust (all metal and 6lbs heavier). The travel versions ARE very light, so that is a consideration also. Any light weight stand will work for these, but you will want to use a sandbag or other ballast. C-stands would be much better!!

Though you seem to be leaning towards LEDs for your other lights, plain old tungsten fresnels have a place and you can get 3200k flo bulbs.

Grant
 
Grant,
Sorry for my delay to respond - I truly appreciate your feedback.
Frankly I am a little surprised that no one else responded and I was waiting for a few before reposting.

I will give the 4x55 Flo greater consideration vs the 2x55 units. You are probably on target with regards to needing more light for the 12x16 bluescreen.
I am likely going to require the travel versions. I have lit greenscreen before but not with Flo lights.

Perhaps I should have broken my questions down and given them exciting Thread names like "battle of the Flo kits"
Flo lighting for bluescreen - are aliens really taking over?" or some such title.
Better yet - perhaps I should just email Richard at Coollights and ask him.
It just seemed reasonable that some professionals on this forum would have some feedback in regards to what I proposed.
Thanks Grant.
 
I am now considering a few options for the purpose of green/bluescreen lighting in the hopes of managing my budget and still getting the job done.
Would appreciate any feedback in regards to any of the following systems;
PBL-MXFLO-6
http://www.amazon.com/Double-Softbox-Flourescent-1800ws-Incandescent/dp/B002I9TKJS

PBL StudioFlo - 7 light
http://www.skaeser.com/servlet/the-855/STUDIO--LIGHTING-/Detail

imagewest - Wall of Light
http://www.imagewest.tv/servlet/the...Fluorescent+Cool+Lights:Green+Screen+Lighting

I am also giving consideration to the Comer 1800 instead of the Dedo Ledzilla for the dual purpose of backlight and on-cam light for the Sony Ex1r.
But I am not sure of the ability of the Comer (or for that matter the Ledzilla) to perform as a backlight or secondary accent light.

Any feedback would be appreciated. It's not obvious to me how much is (quantity and quality) is needed for 12x16 chromakey purposes
 
Orben,

I don't know about any of the vendors you posted up. I do know that Cool Lights also does the mogul based flos with softboxes. Most all of this stuff comes from China, so the difference is in support, and Cool Lights is pretty top notch in that regard. Also, it is worth reading the information about flo bulbs on the Cool Lights site, no one else gives you this type of info.

Maybe others will chime in, but I'm not sold on the color of LEDs. If you were using only LEDs, it would be a non-issue, but in a mix, I'm not so sure. The power options on LEDs are really nice compared to tungsten, but it does make the light head heavier because the batteries are on board. A tungsten does offer better color (true 3200k) and if needed, a focused beam. I use a Pag C6 and it can be focused, comes with barndoors, difuser, dichroic, charger and a brick battery for $249. The light head is feather light, but you have to pack the 6v brick battery. You can get 12v bulbs for the G4 mini base and use the bescor or other 12 power for it and abandon the 6v system, though it does work well.

I have the travel version of the 455 Cool Lights. They are fine, but you will want a good case for travel. I researched the options and you can get two of them in the following:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/182973-REG/Pelican_1650_021_110_1650NF_Case_without_Foam.html
You can get this with various foam options.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/601952-REG/Kata_KT_OMB_77_OMB_77_One_Man_Band.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/659848-REG/Kata_KT_CB_400.html

The large ONE Man Band bag is on sale, so that is a bargain.

Grant
 
Grant,

Thanks again for your responses.

Regarding the mix of LED and Flo;
Perhaps I got off to a poor start with that title as I do not intend to mix these two sources on the subject/talent.
The Flo lighting is for lighting a chroma-screen. The LED will be used for subject.
My biggest question/concern was if the kits that I am still considering get the job done of lighting a 12x16 chroma-screen.
I eliminated many due to negative reviews on several forums. But I have not found much by way of review for the ones still under consideration.

Regarding the case suggestions;
Thank you for that effort. In addition to shopping for case solutions for the light kits, I am also considering cases/bags for the Sony EX1r.
I am considering the Kata 193 for the Sony but the couple of options you linked to are very interesting. The OMB in particular (for lights or camera).

The next step is to contact the various vendors and try to get a step more comfortable with these choices.
In our dream world - we post a question about various kits and their potential as solutions and somebody posts a reply that goes something like this:
"yeah buddy, I use that kit for bluescreen and here is a capture from my latest project"
And it's not such a far out dream as I have seen similar responses on various forums.
The lower cost solutions (not that a budget of $3k is so low) that I am considering contributes to the lack of specific response.
I recognize that there would be plenty of response to a "does this Kino-Flo system get the job done".

Thanks for your good efforts (especially looking up those cases)
 
I don't know what cam you are using, but if it is a newer Panna cam with a WFM, that makes green screen a snap.

Believe me, most of the vendors will be of marginal assistance, especially the ebay type vendors. BH is a good vendor, but they won't give you that type of help either. That kind of help and advice can be had from the pro-lighting houses, but they aren't going to carry China-Lights, and they are going to charge more. That's why I recommended Richard at Cool Lights. He owns the company, he designs most of his product, he lives in China and worries over his product, he answers your email direct. No I don't work for him....

You might also try someone like Guy from the DVestore. Richard and Guy are both DVXuser site sponsors and have an interest in the members.

How you ask your questions will determine the response you get. I have often been surprised at a sparse response, rephrased the question and got more than I wanted. Suggest you parse your questions down to be a little more specific per post.

Two of the 4-55s will light a 12x10 screen, I've done it. I would also tell you that you can do it with two 650 fresnels with barn doors, scrims, unfocused beam and crossed at about 75deg 7 feet away from screen and 12 feet apart. Talent stands between the two fresnels and is lit separately. I wouldn't do this without the afore mentioned WFM. There are lot's of ways to get from here to there!

Grant
 
It all depends if you need all this to be mobile and durable (you always go to clients, etc).
If yes, than buy 2-3 600 LED + 1200 LED on ebay. They are dimmable and have remote. Color quality according to guys who tried them are not very good, but Cool Lights will be the same.
Is no, then buy two 2000W fluos kits on ebay (5x lamps heads with softbox + 4*45w lamps), total $300-320 and .
Fluos are very good for soft light and light quality with this 45w lamps will be better than LEDs.
But... It is not portable solution. Heads and softboxes are pretty durable and portable, but lamps are not.
May be very high led count e27 lamps could help (dealextreme.com have one costing $75 with 4000 claimed lumens, most probably near 2000).
5x of such lamps will be very bright, but light quality remains big question.
You'll also need spot lights (hair, backlights), so add 2x300w Arri knockoffs from ebay also.
Other option is to use e27 led lamps (about 5-6W and 15-30 degrees) and slightly modify 5x head (you need to bend metal socket holders to make them parralel).
Led lamps are very durable.
 
I am not looking at EBay for the potential purchases but am looking at online stores that I do not know much about.
I am considering kits from imagewest, Steve Kaeser and perhaps thru Amazon shopping.
My expectations for the Fluorescent kits is not very high.
To be used for 12x16 chromakey. Likely to be transported 4-6 times per year (I can hope for more but this is my best guestimate).
I can accept if the units take a few minutes extra to setup and that I will have to handle them with some care.
Originally I was considering the "kino flo" type fixtures that Coollights sells for the chromakey lighting.
But I am looking at my budget and opened up my mind to using the bulb style fluorescent units with softbox.
The focus of my question(s) since my initial overly ambitious post is - do these systems get the job done.

Regarding speaking with vendors;
I have made purchasing decisions where the quality of the vendors answers made a big difference in my choice.
But it is a challenge when my own experience limits my ability to ask the right kind of questions.
I am doing my homework and expect that I will be content with my decisions.
My biz experience suggests I won't be thrilled but content is a good place to be when on a budget and trying out new ideas.
I won't know for sure until I contact Richard at Coollights directly but I have reason to think that he will provide me some assistance.
Based on his posts on this forum - I think he will even be of some help in considering the Flo light options.
Unless his shipping charges are bad, I will very likely choose Coollights for the LEDs.

Regarding camera;
I am going to purchase the Sony Ex1r

thanks for the supportive suggestions
I may still post the more specific questions (anyone know this vendor, Flo kits and how much light for 12x16 chroma) on separate posts.
 
I just received my two led 600 from coollights love them !!!
The gels are great .
Might order some more in the future.
 
I like my Coollights 2x55 and 4x55 lights. I also have an LED panel light, a chinese knockoff of a lightpanels 600 dimmable unit. My reactions to what you (Orben) and others have said in this thread:

1. Shooting video you will want to shoot greenscreen, not bluescreen.
2. The keys to effective greenscreen are a) light the talent attractively, just the way you'd light them in any circumstance. b) get the talent separated from the screen so their light spills minimally and casts no shadows on the screen c) light the screen evenly and don't overlight it
3. LED lights are very versatile key lights, fill lights and back lights. However, they don't have a very even beam (tend to be brighter in the middle) and the barndoors are not useful.
4. I have Anton Bauer Hytron 90's that I mount to my LED light and it's still not as heavy as my flos (which are not that heavy themselves).
5. The Cool Lights portable 4x55 (non-dimmable) are great units for your Greenscreen backgrounds, and they would also be useful for interview lights.
6. LED's don't match perfectly with flos, as mentioned. I don't agree that the Coollights LEDs will be the same as the typical Chinese knockoffs. They are likely to be better, but still won't completely match.
7. Using 1/4 or 1/2 magenta ("minus-green") gel on LED lights will help.
8. I don't consider the CFL-based softboxes to be very versatile, and they require a fair amount of room to use.
9. Don't forget a backlight/hairlight. This could be a 2x55 flo, or a 600 LED, or even a 128 LED, depending on the specific setup, and your budget.
9. My "ideal" budget corporate/interview kit, with an eye toward flexibility, would include a couple of 4x55 Cool Lights, one 2x55 Cool Lights, and one or two 600 LED units, and maybe a 250 watt fresnel tungsten fixture with a few sheets of 1/2 and full blue
10. You'll need stands (I like Avenger stands), sandbags (or shot bags), extension cords, and -for two-person interviews and for backlights- one or two boom arms
11. Also add a 5-in-one flex-fill and arm and stand. You can get cheap knockoff flex-fills on ebay, Amazon, and other vendors
12. If you run out of budget, delete the 2x55 Cool Light flo, and one of the 600 LED lights and the boom arms.
13. Since the flo lights and LEDs are not hot, for diffusion (and you may want to further diffuse them at times), some white nylon "silk" from a fabric store or sheer curtains from a thrift store clipped to the barn doors will suffice.

There is so much I could add, but the most important thing is that you need to balance practical experience with a grounding in practical lighting techniques. There's a great interview lighting technique DVD, I recommend it highly, do a search in the forums for the title...it escapes my memory.
 
Sunporchmedia,

Thanks for the advise and considerations.
I am having to make some of my decisions with end of year 2010 tax implications and have recently ordered a Sony Ex1r along with a tripod,
carry bag, Vortex Media training DVD. So taking a little more time in review of lighting options.
As I stated in previous posts - I am considering lighting options for chromascreen (as I am a bit more certain of what I will purchase for talent/subject lighting).

Subject lighting: Coollights LED-600 with softbox for key, either another LED-600 or a LED-256 for fill (most likely the 600)
then I am considering the occasional need for on-camera light and was looking at options that could also serve as backlight for interview setup
looking to learn more about both Dedo Ledzilla and Comer 1800 for this potential dual-role light
I do not anticipate using the on-camera light so much (but I believe this could always change and an instrument that serves two purposes is of interest)
so the alternative may be to purchase a Coollights LED-256 as backlight and acquire an on-cam light if and when the need to becomes more obvious.

Regarding the chromascreen lighting;
I agree that Green may be better for various reasons than Blue. I have a Blue and will likely purchase a Green (the Blue will still get used for some situations)
What I have stated in previous posts and am still pondering is wether the Coollights portable 4x55 are worth the budget expansion vs. getting these
http://www.skaeser.com/servlet/the-866/FLUORESCENT-PHOTO-VIDEO-STUDIO/Detail

Considering that I do not anticipate that Green-screen shooting will be required very often - I am ready to get a Flo kit that gets the job done on a budget.
What I have asked on this forum is if the PBL kit from Steve Kaiser actually does get the job done of throwing an even light on a 16x12 screen.
I agree that the CFL based softbox are not very versatile - I am considering the room needed for setup and your point is well taken.
But I am only considering these units for lighting a chroma background. It's possible I could regret not having something more flexible for other potential use.
I realize that the color temp will vary from what is on the subject vs. what is on the green-screen.
I don't believe this to be a problem as we are keying out the screen and am not mixing LED with Flo on the subject.

The 5 in 1 flex-fill and arm has been on my list. Did an online search for opinions on various choices and like most every tool in the world of production -
there were those that made legit cases for the more expensive packages.
Like all of my decisions, I will hope to find the right balance of budget considerations vs. what gets the job done right.

Regarding the practical experience;
Very good advise. I am a strong believer in the benefits of apprenticeship in most fields and especially in this one.
I am a member of a Media Professionals group here in Florida. There are several very solid "acquisition" professionals that know me primarily for my post production skills. I have begun discussion with a couple to work with them and learn what I can in practical settings.
The group has also sponsored some very interesting lighting "workshops" but there is little substitute for on the job learning.

Thanks again.
 
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