FS7: Considering FS7 or URSA

If the work is pure greenscreen the Sony F35 ought to provide top notch results. True 4:4:4 sensor, can be easily recorded to 12bit 4:4:4 uncompressed via multiple recorders.

I see a lot of talk about dynamic range, but for controlled green screen work with studio lighting, the dynamic range isn't a key factor - you light the studio to the camera's comfort zone.

The F35 isn't 4k, but it actually has more photosites than the FS7, and ought to provide excellent uprez results if needed.

Also, it's available in the the same general price range as a URSA/FS7. Certainly far cheaper than a RED Epic package.
 
Hey Viddo, thanks for the input. Actually I have been nosing around for an F35 but can't seem to find one for sale...at one that looks legit. I do prefer to work in UHD or 4K. Saves on having to setup two cameras just for punching in and out. And boy is that Dragon package sexy! I'm working on it.
 
I know a few folks who might be looking to sell their F35... Not sure pricing but if you're seriously looking PM me and I'll check with my contacts...
 
rawnster said:
Hey Viddo, thanks for the input. Actually I have been nosing around for an F35 but can't seem to find one for sale...at one that looks legit. I do prefer to work in UHD or 4K. Saves on having to setup two cameras just for punching in and out. And boy is that Dragon package sexy! I'm working on it.
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Just be aware of a few things:
- When you do a digital push in on anything, even 4k, you lose resolution. Pretty much all the 4k cameras can only be considered 4:2:2 at 4k, and 4:4:4 at 1080, with proper processing. For your best keys with a 4k camera, you want to avoid a digital push, and work with the native frame, then downscale to delivery after the key. If you push, key, deliver, it's lower quality, and not as good a key as having framed correctly.
-Because the F35 has so many photosites and 4:4:4 color by nature, it is as sharp as 4k downscaled to 1080, and that means it also handles digital punches better than pretty much any other 1080 camera.

Ultimately, we all make workflow sacrifices, but if you want perfect keys, I don't think digital crops are an ideal choice.
 
Yes, you're right, Viddo. I do all keying in it's native resolution, render out the key, and then cut the footage as needed.
 
gene_can_sing said:
But what you fail to mention is that if a 12 stop camera allocates more stops to the highlights, then it comes at the expense of the shadows and mid-tones so you will have more noise in the lower values.
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I didn't really fail to mention it, we were just not talking about that. My reply was to your remark saying that because the FS7 has two more stops of dynamic range it handles highlights better. Like I tried to say, one thing has nothing to do with the other.


gene_can_sing said:
There is always a penalty with lower DR cameras no matter how you tweak it. That's what happened with the FS700 and S-Log2. The highlights were great because S-Log 2 crammed so much of the range into the highlights, but the shadows were really noisy. I personally like the more balanced range I'm getting from the FS7 and CineEI.

Once again, all camera manufactures are probably going to inflate the DR a bit, so the 2 extra stops on the FS7 is 2 extra stops over the URSA. Charts and real world tests have shown the FS7 to be around an honest 14 stops. The highlight on the FS7 is really good.
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Sure there are always compromises. But as I mentioned above, we were not talking about compromises. The topic at hand was "more dynamic range helps with highlight handling" and this is just not necessarily the case.

I personally prefer more dynamic allocated to the highlights. I can always throw more light at shadow areas. The Achilles-Heel of digital is and always has been highlight handling.
 
Viddovation said:
If the work is pure greenscreen the Sony F35 ought to provide top notch results. True 4:4:4 sensor, can be easily recorded to 12bit 4:4:4 uncompressed via multiple recorders.

I see a lot of talk about dynamic range, but for controlled green screen work with studio lighting, the dynamic range isn't a key factor - you light the studio to the camera's comfort zone.

The F35 isn't 4k, but it actually has more photosites than the FS7, and ought to provide excellent uprez results if needed.

Also, it's available in the the same general price range as a URSA/FS7. Certainly far cheaper than a RED Epic package.
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Fully agree. Even better than a F35 would be a SRW9000 or F23. I know it's supposed to be a 35mm world and everybody wants to shoot that, but unless you are shooting only locked shots a 2/3" camera will be a much better tool for green screen work.

If you need to 3D track anything, out of focus tracking marks just make it harder to "matchmove." Back in the days when this type of work was shot exclusively on 35mm film they would stop down the lens a lot to increase the depth of field. Now on digital doing that totally defeats shooting on a 35mm sensor. It makes much more sense using a 2/3" camera. Most likely the reason films like Speed Racer used a F23 instead of a Panavision Genesis.

A F23 or SRW9000 would give you true RBG 444 with a better fitting sensor size and they can be had for a bargain these days.
 
I was considering the URSA (who wouldn't give it a serious look at under $6K?) until I spent an evening on their forums reading about the problems with pattern noise, cameras that boot up for no reason, hardware failures, and lack of company support for last year's cameras. My decision was to stick with Sony. High price, but at least your shoots get done and the footage comes out good.
 
Where I come from the Usra 1st gen. sensor isn't anything to get excited over. 2nd gen. sensors maybe something else. IMO this is what the camera has been designed for and is waiting for .....the future ......maybe NAB , maybe not. Either way this camera is a 16 lb pig ergonomic wise , that can't be said about Sony's FS7 .
 
Usually when I am looking for quality videos (or at least popular videos), I search Vimeo and sort by likes and comments (YouTube too with its own search options). I personally have not seen anything mind blowing from the FS7...yet...and the videos I've seen from the URSA (which has its own issues) look cleaner, sharper and more cinematic IMHO.
 
NorBro, I would have to agree with you. I have tried to convince myself to like the Fs7, but though my countless hrs of online searches I have yet to pull up one video that completely does it for me, like the black magic, and some of the others seem to do effortlessly. I 'm sort of tired of the milky, over done film luts that are being used on these cameras to try and give it a certain mojo that seems to to fall short. However the all of black magic cams seems to get there with little effort. The Fs7 to me is a step backwards in way of the organic look, and texture but great for conveniance, and run and gun situations. But I really despise the look. If only black magic would put that technology in better ergonomics, than I would be on board as the cam checks off a lot of things I need minus run and gun.
 
I hear you! So many cameras built by Sony, Panasonic and Canon are amazing with their build, ergonomics, button layout, menus, options, support, etc, but fall short on the image (in a certain price range) and that's the most important part! Yes, the images can be beautiful, but I'm never completely satisfied with them. Tough to explain.

I am a fan of every company, but I have grown to love the simplicity of BM and the look they produce.
 
Agree with you guys. I want to like this camera because by specs and design it seems to be everything I want. But, I am yet to see any footage that grabs me. I showed a variety of footage from different cams, including the fs7, to people who know little to nothing about cameras and not one person said they liked the footage from the fs7. I'm not saying that this is the way to judge a camera but it was somewhat surprising.

If someone can share some shots that show great color or even some well shot slog-3 footage that I can play around with that would be excellent.
 
Each to their own. I love the image I'm getting from the FS7 and I definitely feel the out of the box image is very cinematic. But everyone has a different opinion of what is good, and no matter what I say or show you probably won't change your mind. For me, these are quick, easy images that took little to no effort since they mostly are out of camera.

I definitely don't feel I would be getting anything more or less cinematic from Black Magic or Canon. They just have different looks. CineEI is great and very filmic, much more so than previous generation Sony cameras except maybe the F35.


https://vimeo.com/121643342
 
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The variety of content is awesome. Would you happen to remember the ISO @ :51/:52 with the girl holding the flowers to her nose?
 
NorBro said:
The variety of content is awesome. Would you happen to remember the ISO @ :51/:52 with the girl holding the flowers to her nose?
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It was just at 2000 ISO base. I actually way under lit that shot because I only had the camera for 5 days at that point so I didn't quite know what I was doing with it yet.
 
Was the master HD or 4K? You disabled the download, so just wondering (sorry if I missed it any writing).
 
In looking at various images from these 4K cameras, it was the F55, F5 and FS7 that my eye liked the most. The images were so free from noise, yet had so much dynamic range, and a creamy, luscious look. Depending on the lens, you can get 'what the eye sees' or a cinematic look. Imagine a Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/0.95 on that camera, with the appropriate adapter and the creamy bokah.. realistically, I'll be looking at something from Rokinon for 1/10th the price, but the looks are about the lens, and who's shooting and who's grading it.
 
gene_can_sing said:
Each to their own. I love the image I'm getting from the FS7 and I definitely feel the out of the box image is very cinematic. But everyone has a different opinion of what is good, and no matter what I say or show you probably won't change your mind. For me, these are quick, easy images that took little to no effort since they mostly are out of camera.

I definitely don't feel I would be getting anything more or less cinematic from Black Magic or Canon. They just have different looks. CineEI is great and very filmic, much more so than previous generation Sony cameras except maybe the F35.


https://vimeo.com/121643342
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Looks good. Thanks!
 
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