After many weeks studying lenses and reading lens threads, I knew a set of primes was not going to be optimal for my EFP shoots and rental clients. And I also knew Zuiko zooms would be a hard thing to market to my film DP guys. So I went to the Zeiss website and noticed the Zeiss 2.8 constant zooms for Sony Alpha, and wondered if they might adapt to M4/3. Sure enough, Novoflex does make a ZA to M43, with an aperture ring. So I ordered an adapter from Adorama and a 16-35 from Sony Style on-line and picked up the 24-70 from Houston Camera Exchange and used them all week on a corporate shoot. Absolutely gorgeous. We shot everything wide open and controlled the aperture with ND and good lighting, we never used the aperture ring---but I can tell you it is SILENT and so is the FOCUS and ZOOM. There are no aperture markings on the Novoflex ring, which is a very short distance from open to close, and there is no electronic control of iris or focus, it's all about using the zebras and waveform, your brain, and focus was just oh so easy because it is crisp and clean, and creamy everywhere else, like butter. The lenses do not have OIS at all, the Sony Alpha cameras possess the stabilization feature, not the lenses. This is not an issue for me at this time, I think that will be worked out in the future with the lens manufacturers and Panasonic. These are my first Zeiss lenses. I had no idea how pretty they could be. Or how heavy they were! I also have a Cineroid and Hotrod Tuner Kit. Read and learn about Zeiss ZA 2.8 Zooms. Stay away from the cheaper versions of the zooms that do not have constant 2.8. And understand, these zooms are for convenience, not for zooming live, although you probably could if you had to with little to no breathing at all. But the zoom ring is really tight whereas the focus ring is not so tight and works with my JBK universal wheel Follow Focus. $1800/1600/300 TTL in TX! I can go longer or wider renting primes from a good neighbor.
Consider Zeiss 2.8 16-35 & 24-70 for Sony Alpha adapted to M43
- Thread starter chrisccw
- Start date
benniles
Well-known member
These are lovely lenses but one thing has always bothered me is that I don't understand
why lens manufactures have moved away from manual aperture rings to electronically controlled apertures ones on many of the newer Still photo lenses and zooms.
If these lenses had a manual aperture ring I would pick them up in a heart beat.
Zeiss I hope you are listening.
why lens manufactures have moved away from manual aperture rings to electronically controlled apertures ones on many of the newer Still photo lenses and zooms.
If these lenses had a manual aperture ring I would pick them up in a heart beat.
Zeiss I hope you are listening.
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Awesome! I was hoping someone somewhere out there had given these lenses a shot as I'm in the very same position. I was invested in the Minolta and now Sony system with an old 80-200mm 2.8 G...awesome lens. But the focus travel is a tad short. Anyway, I am currently in the position of trying to decide between Nikon and Sony/Zeiss...I'm staying away from canon just for the reason they are only electronic iris. I know the Birger is coming out, but what about the future with other platforms? I just figured canon was a smidge more limiting than Nikon. Do you have any sample video up? Did any issues crop up? Did you use any lens support or was it fine with just the adapter? Have you ever compared them to the Nikon and/or Canon? Thanks!
I read in some lens tests that these lenses are the sharpest zooms going, the only ones that come close are the Olympus f/2 dream team.
I read in some lens tests that these lenses are the sharpest zooms going, the only ones that come close are the Olympus f/2 dream team.
Barry_Green
Moderator
What I am hoping for is that Zeiss, who recently announced that they would be making lenses in m43 mount, will adapt these to full electronic support. I think they would be the perfect companions to the ZF's. And as Chris said, they have advantages over the Olympus in that there's little to no breathing, and no clicking iris as you zoom in or out, and during some early testing she said they actually looked like they were even holding focus throughout (not sure if that's still the case).
A stop slower than the Olympus lenses, but a very intriguing alternative, and the Novoflex adapter would let you control the aperture (same way as the Nikon adapter does). If these lenses were available in native m43 mount I'd snack 'em up in a heartbeat.
Thanks for the report, Chris!
A stop slower than the Olympus lenses, but a very intriguing alternative, and the Novoflex adapter would let you control the aperture (same way as the Nikon adapter does). If these lenses were available in native m43 mount I'd snack 'em up in a heartbeat.
Thanks for the report, Chris!
They are Zeiss designed, built by Sony and tested using the Zeiss testing machines...just like in the past Minolta had teamed up with Leica to use their formulas in their higher end lenses. So yes, they are not likely to have that specific design shared, but who knows what Zeiss could do if some company wanted to do something similar.
One problem with the Sony A-mount is that it has a shallower focal plane, so unfortunately you cannot use them on Nikon or Canon dslrs. So right now Nikon is the king of compatibility...with controllable iris across the board.
One problem with the Sony A-mount is that it has a shallower focal plane, so unfortunately you cannot use them on Nikon or Canon dslrs. So right now Nikon is the king of compatibility...with controllable iris across the board.
I do not have permission to post video of the shoot I just did, I can put up a screen grab (haven't figured out how--dvx keeps asking for an URL).
I don't know how they compare to anything else out there, other than to the Canon L's, which I've shot with on another gig, and in fact this week a 5D was right next to my camera getting a second angle with a 2.8 70-200. I will see if I can get the producer/editor to cut a clip to post two matching shots or at least the matching grab from the 5D.
I don't know how they compare to anything else out there, other than to the Canon L's, which I've shot with on another gig, and in fact this week a 5D was right next to my camera getting a second angle with a 2.8 70-200. I will see if I can get the producer/editor to cut a clip to post two matching shots or at least the matching grab from the 5D.
We used flat settings on both cameras--they were very close, in fact the editor added the exact same amount of red to both images for skin tone, and dropped the blacks on both. I wish I could post images. The 5D was at 200mm most of the day for the closeup and the AF100 was at 50 to 70mm. Both wide open at 200 ASA, creating creamy backgrounds. This part was most interesting for me to see in person---the background on the 5D was SO creamy that it was hard to tell if it was on the same background as the AF100...so...I raised the ISO on the 5D to 500 and shot at F5.6 or so to make a building in the background read as a soft building instead of gray mush in one of the scenes. It was a real estate video, afterall. Therein lies the difference between a full frame sensor and m4/3. To many that may sound like a world apart, but it was really ONLY that far apart most of the day in most of the scenes, depending on lighting. I like creamy, buttery backgrounds, but I also like to know what it is back there, and that was a problem on the 5D at 2.8. A problem most people like to have. And that's okay too.
Thank you for this great information!! Why did you choose the Sony zeiss over something like the nikon equivalent lenses? Did you decide it wasn't as much of a priority to be able to use them on the likes of nikon or canon platforms in the future because they were zeiss? I just ask that because that is what's pushing me toward nikon, but if the zeiss are much better I may want to just go that route. Sony brings a mass production quality to zeiss that probably makes them cheaper priced than zeiss itself could make them for. Thanks again!
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I couldn't see myself spending $7,000 on a set of Zeiss ZF2's, which would give me the range of two Zeiss Zooms for half the money. There are no Zeiss zooms for Nikon. There is no equivalent. But you're right, this is not a good long range plan--it's a band aid to a problem for me. However, I also think these first cameras, the AF100 and F3, are stepping stones and will be replaced within a year or two by whatever is next. At that point these zooms will be a nice set of lenses for a Sony Alpha A55 DSLR --which, btw, also shoots in AVCHD at 30p. Who knew?
Well I don't think its "not" a good plan at all, because they work and work well on the af100 m4/3 mounts so that's great. Plus with adapters they'll work on just about anything else other than Nikon and Canon dslrs. They are a much cheaper alternative to the Olympus zuikos and according to tests I've read have some of the best resolving ability. But what I haven't been able to find, until now, is someone who actually used them on the af100...so this is great! I actually have an a700 camera body, so I could use my old minolta mount lenses. On a good front Sony has announced the a77, which is coming out this year and is supposed to be pretty awesome. My understanding is that Sony is behind Nikon and Canon in noise control at higher ISO's, so perhaps they'll catch up... But the new transparent mirror design seems to be turning heads, but one thing no one ever talks about is how much light is lost through that mirror, thus limiting its low light capability...
Limitations are that since its more of a niche player, that companies like Birger etc most likely would never make an electronic mount for Sony lenses like they are for Canon and probably Nikon later on...
For price, getting Zeiss glass from 16mm-70mm, there is nothing that can touch them...
Limitations are that since its more of a niche player, that companies like Birger etc most likely would never make an electronic mount for Sony lenses like they are for Canon and probably Nikon later on...
For price, getting Zeiss glass from 16mm-70mm, there is nothing that can touch them...
Barry_Green
Moderator
Well, here's the thing -- if you're in the rental business, and a client who's used to shooting cinema stuff calls up and says "What glass do you have?" you can answer "well, I have a Lumix 20mm, and an Olympus 14-35, and a Tokina 11-16" they're almost certainly going to say "what?" Those guys don't read these boards. They wouldn't even know what any of those lenses were.
Whereas, if your answer is "I've got a couple of Zeiss zoom lenses for it", then the response is "Okay, good -- I need it for two weeks starting next Monday."
Plus, if you ever add an F3 or NXCAM S35 to your stable, those Alpha lenses will probably be able to be used on those bodies.
I think they sound like a pretty solid choice, and I'm tempted by them, I just want to see if Zeiss announces comparable lenses for native m43 before I take the plunge. I have a complete set of ZF's, and I think that the zooms would probably be the perfect lenses to add. But I'd rather have native m43 mount than use an adapter, if it's possible.
Whereas, if your answer is "I've got a couple of Zeiss zoom lenses for it", then the response is "Okay, good -- I need it for two weeks starting next Monday."
Plus, if you ever add an F3 or NXCAM S35 to your stable, those Alpha lenses will probably be able to be used on those bodies.
I think they sound like a pretty solid choice, and I'm tempted by them, I just want to see if Zeiss announces comparable lenses for native m43 before I take the plunge. I have a complete set of ZF's, and I think that the zooms would probably be the perfect lenses to add. But I'd rather have native m43 mount than use an adapter, if it's possible.
Barry_Green
Moderator
But no aperture rings, so you need something like chrisccw is using, the Novoflex adapter that has aperture control.
How do you guys work rentals? I'd be so worried my stuff would get trashed, so if I rent out my stuff...I'm always with it. I guess you need good insurance...
I see what you're saying, you're not saying Sony A-mount, you're saying I have Zeiss lenses with my AF...which is pretty universally known to be excellent.
As far as Zeiss making these designs available on m4/3...I think this kind of explains it, from the FAQ on Sony ZA lenses at zeiss.com:
3. Why are ZEISS lenses for Sony cameras produced in Japan?
Sony produces digital cameras of different types in extremely high numbers in several factories in Japan. The lenses for these cameras have to come from lens factories near the Sony camera manufacturing facilities to ensure reliable deliveries and minimize the economic risk of interrupted supplies.
ZEISS lenses for Sony digital cameras are developed by lens designers at the Carl Zeiss plant in Oberkochen, Germany. This includes all required quality assurance measures (test methods, test criteria, test devices, test procedures, lens performance target values, etc.) The lenses are then made in a lens production facility jointly chosen by Sony and Carl Zeiss. Quality assurance specialists from the Carl Zeiss plant in Oberkochen implement the ZEISS quality assurance system in the chosen facility. Many ZEISS optic measuring systems are installed. Carl Zeiss audits the lens production areas on a regular basis.
All these measures ensure that ZEISS lenses in Sony digital cameras meet the expectations demanding users associate with ZEISS lenses.
I see what you're saying, you're not saying Sony A-mount, you're saying I have Zeiss lenses with my AF...which is pretty universally known to be excellent.
As far as Zeiss making these designs available on m4/3...I think this kind of explains it, from the FAQ on Sony ZA lenses at zeiss.com:
3. Why are ZEISS lenses for Sony cameras produced in Japan?
Sony produces digital cameras of different types in extremely high numbers in several factories in Japan. The lenses for these cameras have to come from lens factories near the Sony camera manufacturing facilities to ensure reliable deliveries and minimize the economic risk of interrupted supplies.
ZEISS lenses for Sony digital cameras are developed by lens designers at the Carl Zeiss plant in Oberkochen, Germany. This includes all required quality assurance measures (test methods, test criteria, test devices, test procedures, lens performance target values, etc.) The lenses are then made in a lens production facility jointly chosen by Sony and Carl Zeiss. Quality assurance specialists from the Carl Zeiss plant in Oberkochen implement the ZEISS quality assurance system in the chosen facility. Many ZEISS optic measuring systems are installed. Carl Zeiss audits the lens production areas on a regular basis.
All these measures ensure that ZEISS lenses in Sony digital cameras meet the expectations demanding users associate with ZEISS lenses.
So since sony actually manufactures the lenses themselves, it would take a company like Panasonic to probably license the design for m4/3's...so its very unlikely native versions of those specific lenses will be available any time soon... I wouldn't mind being wrong but even if they are native, it still limits their use only to the m4/3 platform so that's why I wasn't crazy about Olympus Zuikos.